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In Reply to: RE: I too read your rant and it was part of my motivation to see it... posted by Steve O on February 01, 2018 at 15:03:24
"You previously likened the film to Nazi and Stalinist propaganda but you haven't described who or what is behind the the propaganda in the film and what is its purpose"
I didn't link anything to nothing. I just noted that propaganda movies even from such despicable regimes as Stalinist's Russia and Nazis were not void of artistic values, interesting plots or good acting despite underlying message. That's why they were so effective in influencing the masses.
I think its the weakest del Toro movie so far. Certainly far below usual Oscar level, but in current political/cultural climate I would not be surprised if it takes a bunch.
What is a secular relativism :?)
You operate on such sophisticated level verbally and can't decipher a rather simple movie Steve?
I'm sure you know all the answers and perfectly got all the angles of the movie in the instant, even before you rolled out the proof of your parents investment in your higher education.
warm regards, W
Follow Ups:
You wrote:
"You operate on such sophisticated level verbally and can't decipher a rather simple movie Steve?
I've "deciphered" the movie to my satisfaction. I'm attempting to "decipher" your perspective on it and why you seem to think it's some kind of sly, covert jab at traditional values or whatever it is about it that bothers you so much. Maybe not possible in a bulletin board format.
What bothers me most is an intellectual dishonesty of people of your caliber. You (as a group) seem to constantly violate that "Noblesse oblige" rule and it's sad because I suspect you're phd and a scholar, and there is simply no possibility that you're not aware of it.
Have a nice one.
...LOL. I think I now understand your position. Movies like this and other degenerate cultural artifacts of our time should be suppressed by those who know better and prevented from reaching those who don't know better. And conversely, the "good" should be promoted. IOW, "elites" have an obligation to society.....and at the moment, they're failing. Above my pay grade for sure!
Gooday!
Oh no, not at all. I meant that people of knowledge are expected (obligated) to adhere to higher standards that mere regular folks. I.e you serve the truth and not manipulate it for the cause. Is this that much to ask from the wise ones?
...I see a well acted, entertaining Oscar caliber film with period heroines and villains but you see truth manipulated for a cause.
You sound like Wonka railing against a liberal film that elevates minorities.
...I see a well acted, entertaining Oscar caliber film with period heroines and villains ..."
I never said that the movie is lacking those elements (except maybe an Oscar caliber weight of the work )I even have an idea for the sequel.
Two rival drug gangs populated entirely by minorities and immigrants , some of them freshly from Muslim countries (why not) compete for which one the creature will work, smuggling drugs underwater. The community those gangs are from will be portrayed with all the stereotypes available at the disposal shall I list them? The whole operations are overseen by greedy Jews because of course the gang bosses are too stupid to handle the money. Now , Sally is taken a hostage to convince/force the creature to cooperate. The threat is that she will be gang raped by those needy Muslim immigrants. The only smart person in the assembly is a white chemists who mix the drugs (again because nobody else is smart enough ) and whose wife would be gang raped by of course those needy guys from the middle east otherwise. He will be essential in helping Sally. All of this surely in the background of burgeoning romance between Sally and the creature . There are twists and changes of action etc. etc necessarily with few sequences of fat ,spiteful and really stupid feminine social workers/warriors being used by unscrupulous gangs. At the end the US Cavalry of smart and brave FBI agents arrives and clears the field from the scum and dutiful ICE agents deport the remains.
Now I'm sure the talented director of Del Toro caliber would make you forget all that background story and focus only on uplifting romance without barriers. An Oscar script no doubt about it.
Edits: 02/02/18 02/02/18
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