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"Alternate Facts" go WAY back before that

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Chris from Lafayette

In Reply to: RE: Nice spin... posted by mkuller on June 01, 2018 at 12:02:04

I agree that facts are verifiable - and alternate facts are sometimes verifiable too, sometimes not (in which case they are not facts!).

But sometimes, actual facts support positions and opinions we don't agree with - does that make these particular facts propaganda?

Follow Ups:

"Alternate Facts" go WAY back before that - mkuller 11:16:09 06/02/18 (5)
...of course people have been making up "alternative facts" forever so let's take an example:

"3 to 5 million voted illegally in the 2016 presidential election."

Fact, alternative fact, untruth,or propaganda?

Pick any 3.
- I don't consider that a fact - alternate or otherwise - Chris from Lafayette 14:20:49 06/02/18 (4)
  And in any case, that's not really what I was talking about. My point was that there are actual, verifiable facts which may not support one's beliefs, and it's not OK simply to dismiss this information as propaganda, no matter where it comes from.
  - I think... - mkuller 15:52:15 06/02/18 (3)
    ...it's important to constantly challenge your "beliefs" with facts, whether you like them or not.
    
    So the only "alternative facts" are the made-up ones.
    
    Propaganda is usually not factual but intended to mislead.
    - At least I agree with your first sentence! ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 00:38:15 06/03/18 (2)
      Alternative facts can be every bit as verifiable as "non-alternative" facts - otherwise, they aren't facts at all.
      
      What is perceived as propaganda can also be highly factual - it just depends on the methodology of the propagandist. Many things are labeled as propaganda, when they're simply alternative points of view, supported by a different set of (actual) facts.
      - And I agree with this one... - mkuller 10:22:08 06/03/18 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: At least I agree with your first sentence! ;-) posted by Chris from Lafayette on June 03, 2018 at 00:38:15
        
        > Alternative facts can be every bit as verifiable as "non-alternative" facts - otherwise, they aren't facts at all.>
        
        "Alternative facts" used in its current context are not real facts.
        
        They are made up to support someone's narrative.
        
        A matter of definition - whatever - Chris from Lafayette 11:03:09 06/03/18 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: And I agree with this one... posted by mkuller on June 03, 2018 at 10:22:08
        
        According to you, the term, "alternative facts", is an alternative fact itself! ;-)

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