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In Reply to: RE: Well, this thread kicked off with statistics about the entire installed base of game consoles posted by Jazz Inmate on July 03, 2007 at 15:32:01
>>That isn't all I'm interested in but you need to face the fact that the major studios and their blockbusters are going to drive the direction of HDTV formats.<<
I wonder where you got the idea that I ever disputed this. It certainly wasn't in anything I've written.
>>studios should be encouraged to use any tools at their disposal to protect their intellectual property in the regions where they own it.<<
I totally disagree with your stance on this issue. 'Nuff said.
>>I could, except that the type of regional encoding you are against has not been implemented<<
You're wrong. It has indeed been implemented, exactly in the fashion I deplore. Here's a list someone put together showing some of the discs on the market, and whether they are playback-restricted by region. By and large, the older, less desirable releases are not locked out, the newer ones are.
>>Blu-rays, like SACDs, are not subject to regional encoding in Japan. You can order The Producers blu-ray from Japan and enjoy it on your PS3.<<
You're wrong. Region Coding has indeed been implemented in Japan. The thing is that the blu-ray Region Code for Japan is the same as for the US (Region A). So yes, you can take a disc coded for Japan and play it in a US player, but you can't take a disc coded and locked-out for Japan/US and play it in a European player.
>>you can bet your arse there will be HD-DVD II that provides the means for regional encoding to the exact same extent as blu-ray.<<
I wouldn't bet that. There was a REASON why Region Coding was not implemented in HD DVD, and it was not a technical reason. The current HD DVD players enforce legacy DVD-V region coding, forgoshsakes! Even if a mythical HD DVD II with Region Coding should emerge, one can always choose not to buy into it. The cork is already out of the bottle on HD DVD though.
Nevertheless, you specifically said that we shouldn't engage in what-ifs, and here you are doing it.
>>See, this is where I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that 24-bit 48 kHz lossless PCM sounds as good as DolbyTruHD? <<
I'm afraid I'm not understanding you, because this sentence makes absolutely no sense. Are you comparing identical lossless PCM to lossless PCM and saying there is a difference???? Or are you comparing an apple to an orange, and saying they are different? Of course they are! Please clarify the point you are trying to get across.
>>Are you saying that data storage capacity and data rates don't matter? That it's just a lie propagated by blu-ray adopters?<<
No, that's not what I'm saying. Try reading what I wrote again.
>>I can't believe he figured out the advantages of blu-ray over hd-dvd before you did!<<
Well, let's see - you've called him a troll in the past, and pretty much accused him of making stuff up. But now you prepared to believe what he posts just because it fits your biases? That's quite a shift in viewpoint! :-)
Follow Ups:
> > > > That isn't all I'm interested in but you need to face the fact that the major studios and their blockbusters are going to drive the direction of HDTV formats. < <
I wonder where you got the idea that I ever disputed this. It certainly wasn't in anything I've written. < <
It's not that you ever disputed it; it's that you have open disdain for the blockbusters as if it's not tied in at all to what you want. I'm just reminding you that it is tied in to what you want.
> > > > studios should be encouraged to use any tools at their disposal to protect their intellectual property in the regions where they own it. < <
I totally disagree with your stance on this issue. 'Nuff said. < <
Well, out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? Sharing between geographical regions where different studios own different titles is ok. So why have studio distribution at all? Is piracy ok? Where are you drawing the line? You can't say regional encoding is unfair without advocating some degree of lawlessness in terms of content ownership.
> > You're wrong. It has indeed been implemented, exactly in the fashion I deplore. Here's a list someone put together showing some of the discs on the market, and whether they are playback-restricted by region. By and large, the older, less desirable releases are not locked out, the newer ones are. < <
But those newer ones are all available in NA, so it's a nonissue.
> > You're wrong. Region Coding has indeed been implemented in Japan. The thing is that the blu-ray Region Code for Japan is the same as for the US (Region A). So yes, you can take a disc coded for Japan and play it in a US player, but you can't take a disc coded and locked-out for Japan/US and play it in a European player. < <
Ok, I'm wrong, but I can play the disc, so again, it's a nonissue.
> > I wouldn't bet that. There was a REASON why Region Coding was not implemented in HD DVD, and it was not a technical reason. < <
Exactly. And it's one of the reasons that only one studio has come out fully supporting HD-DVD (for now) where the rest will never exclusively support it.
> > > > See, this is where I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that 24-bit 48 kHz lossless PCM sounds as good as DolbyTruHD? < <
I'm afraid I'm not understanding you, because this sentence makes absolutely no sense. Are you comparing identical lossless PCM to lossless PCM and saying there is a difference???? < <
Nope. DolbyTruHD involves an algorithm that compresses the code and requires less space on the disc. They may market it as lossless, but lossless PCM is different.
> > Or are you comparing an apple to an orange, and saying they are different? Of course they are! Please clarify the point you are trying to get across. < <
The point I am trying to get across is that greater disc capacity will let you have better quality.
> > > > Are you saying that data storage capacity and data rates don't matter? That it's just a lie propagated by blu-ray adopters? < <
No, that's not what I'm saying. Try reading what I wrote again. < <
I've been reading every post in this thread. I keep saying that blu-ray provides greater storage capacity and is therefore capable of greater quality and you keep saying it's just hype and that I'm a fanboy and cheerleader. I am trying to get you to acknowledge that there are features of blu-ray that do make it superior to HD-DVD regardless of hype or cheerleading, and the storage capacity issue is a no-brainer.
> > Well, let's see - you've called him a troll in the past, and pretty much accused him of making stuff up. But now you prepared to believe what he posts just because it fits your biases? That's quite a shift in viewpoint! < <
Well actually I was just kidding around. I was pretty amused when DUI said he sold his Toshiba. But yeah, if he's seen the light I'd think everyone should!
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > It's not that you ever disputed it; it's that you have open disdain for the blockbusters as if it's not tied in at all to what you want. < < <
I have an open disdain for most blockbusters, I'll admit it. My wife likes them a bit, but I could do without seeing 90+% of them.
> > > But those newer ones are all available in NA, so it's a nonissue. < < <
So anything that doesn't effect you personally doesn't count? BTW, there are Blu-ray discs coming out in Europe, that aren't here.
> > > Nope. DolbyTruHD involves an algorithm that compresses the code and requires less space on the disc. They may market it as lossless, but lossless PCM is different. < < <
The difference is that uncompressed PCM takes up more space. Both are lossless.
> > > The point I am trying to get across is that greater disc capacity will let you have better quality. < < <
That's an assumption, not a given.
Jack
Yeah, as I said earlier, blockbusters may not be our cup of tea, but they do tend to dictate the direction of the industry. Especially in matters of format.
As for the current implementation of regional encoding, it's a nonissue if it doesn't affect me, you or anyone else.
As for DolbyTruHD, as I said, I was invited to listen to this and to the uncompressed PCM in the mixing room of Dolby Labs in San Francisco, as Sony was preparing to author a demo blu-ray disc. There was a difference and to my ears (and the ears of the Sony audio guy), the unmolested PCM was better. DolbyTruHD does compress the PCM and uncompressing it requires another step in the D-> A.
If greater disc capacity can allow 7.1 PCM where HD-DVD requires greater compression, I'm all for it.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > Yeah, as I said earlier, blockbusters may not be our cup of tea, but they do tend to dictate the direction of the industry. Especially in matters of format. < < <
That must be why they lost money last quartet, and are shutting down some stores.
> > > As for the current implementation of regional encoding, it's a nonissue if it doesn't affect me, you or anyone else. < < <
But is DOES effect me, and it certainly effects Europeans, that's the whole point.
I can inport HD DVDs from Europe that I might not be able to with BD. Europeans (Aussies too) can increase their collections by inporting HD DVDs from the US, that aren't available there.
I'll take your word on the PCM, but I'll leave the high end audio for my stereo. Movie sound is secondary for me. It certainly won't be the biggest selling point for the masses. Do you think they'll tell the difference with their $200 Bose surround sound?
I couldn't care less about 7.1.
Jack
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