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In Reply to: RE: format wars: I predict posted by DavidLD on August 21, 2007 at 06:40:30
And yes, I have a Blu Ray player that goes back Saturday. Tired of it freezing up,not recognizing discs\zones. Its buggy, period. 301
Follow Ups:
Didn't you just recently sell off your HD DVD player because of the silly Blockbuster announcement? Going to buy a new one now?
Jack
If you bought a player, live with it and enjoy the software you probably bought to go with it. Who knows, that player might outlive the format(s) it supports, but at least you'll have had years of enjoyment.
Here in Australia the cheapest Toshiba I've heard of, the HD-E1, retails for $899 Aus and the top of the range, the HD-EX1, for $1599 Aus according to the latest issue of one of our magazines. I can't confirm the prices because I've yet to see one in a shop. As a comparison, the cheapest PS3 here goes for just under $1000 Aus, the Sony BDP-S300 for $1099 Aus when it's released here next month, and the LG BH100 dual format player for $1599 Aus.
Toshiba/HD-DVD launched in Australia 2 months AFTER BD, and around 6 months after it launched in the US. BD launched very quickly after the US launch. HD DVD players aren't markedly cheaper than a lot of BD players here.
Toshiba/HD DVD may be trying to look after the US but they don't seem to give a damn about the market elsewhere. I've yet to see a HD-DVD player in a shop, I've seen discs in only one location. I've seen BD players in a number of shops and discs in a number as well.
I don't know what's happening in markets other than the US and Australia but the same thing isn't happening in both of those markets and I suspect that's probably the case elsewhere. Toshiba/HD-DVD doesn't seem to care about markets outside the US from what I see here and that simple fact may bring them down. The US is a huge single market but the market elsewhere is probably larger overall and they need to start considering other places as well if they really want to come out on top.
Quite frankly, the BD side of things seem to want to capture the market here and Toshiba and the HD-DVD crew appear to really not care about us all that much. We simply don't seem to rate to them when you look at the incredibly late release dates and the fact that their players basically cost the same as BD players here with Toshiba's cheapest HD-DVD player being less than $100 Aus (=$80 US) less than the PS3.
David Aiken
The A2 can be found for $250 or less if one looks. They will get cheaper too. The third generation players (3 models) will all be less than $500 list. The Chinese made Venturer line should be coming out in Q4, listing for (hopefully) less than $200.> > > Toshiba/HD DVD may be trying to look after the US but they don't seem to give a damn about the market elsewhere. I've yet to see a HD-DVD player in a shop, I've seen discs in only one location. I've seen BD players in a number of shops and discs in a number as well. < < <
There's a reason for that-here's a rough breakdown of the HDTV market:
US: 60%
Japan: 20%
Europe: 10%
Other: 10%Australia has about 250,000 HDTVs. To put that in perspective, Florida- America's wang, has more HDTVs.
Enjoy,
Jack
The A2 can't be found here either. See my response to Duilawyer for details of the models that can be found.
The figures on the breakdown of the HDTV market don't surprise me, but 40% of the market is outside the US and that's a proportion that can't be ignored with impunity. In addition, that proportion will be rising over time and the US proportion falling, simply due to the respective populations of the US and the rest of the world.
Blu-ray released first in Australia, has players which while still more expensive than HD-DVD players are not significantly more expensive, has more movies released here, andd movie prices seem to be slightly cheaper here as well, possibly because of discounting and sales numbers. None of those factors help HD-DVD here. Repeat that too often in the rest of the world and you bomb in 40% of the world market. If BD does as well in the rest of that 40% as they seem to be doing here, and they continue to do as well in the US as they have been doing, BD will get an overwhelming advantage in player and disc sales.
Not good marketing strategy to rely so heavily on the US in my view.
David Aiken
And Blu-Ray might drop to under $300. We shall see.
Even with $200/$300 players, the mass market might balk at $30 movies.
;0)
That has to be a mistake (or a carrying case is worth an extra $60.00 ??). At that price, even I might succumb to Pre-ordering.
.
1: There's no A20 available in Australia. As far as I know it has never been released here.
2: We have 3 models available from Toshiba. They are the HE-E1 which is $899 Aus (=$728 US), the HP-E10 which is $1099 Aus (=$890 US), and the HE-XE1 which is $1599 Aus (=$1295 US). Those conversions are based on an exchange rate where the Australian dollar = $0.81 US which is roughly what the Australian dollar is worth today. If the Australian dollar goes back up against the US dollar, Toshiba's prices aren't going to come down and the comparison gets even worse.
3: Note that the cheapest Toshiba player in Australia is over twice the price of the A20 in the US.
I doubt we'll see anything significantly cheaper from Toshiba here anytime soon. Oscar's talking rumours of players for US $200 by Christmas. There's probably no hope of Toshiba having a player available in Australia for the equivalent of $600 US by Christmas.
I have to repeat: what price drops? They certainly don't exist where I live and, as I said, there's only around $80 US difference between the cheapest HD-DVD player (the E1) and the cheapest Blu-ray player (the PS3) available here in Australia. HD-DVD is a rip-off here when you compare the prices above to the prices you're quoting.
David Aiken
Obviously the darn thing needs to work! :)
Still leaning towards the PS3 for BD. It appears that Target allows 90 day return policy. Like I said, it has got to work and you bet I'll put it through its paces. The player has a good track record and I know something can happen after 90 days but that is really the best one can do since other B&M stores usually offer 30 day return.
Lowering of prices doesn't guarantee a winner for a format war. It may enhance some sales but other than that...
But there was the 4" wide water strip running down the left side of the screen. Unplugging it for 10 minutes a few times fixed that. Then it thought "The Blue Planet" from Nextflix were Region 2 discs, and said it would not play them. Then the next day it did. VERY LONG annoying wait to start up.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
.
That's what the PS3 is.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
"They probably want a media center that can support photos and music, as well as HD movies..."
They probably already have a USB cord for their digital camera or the pix burned on to a dvd. Most likely they own a cd player already too. And you expect them to shell out an extra $250+ to replace what they can already do?
As for the kids wanting a game console under the tree, going by present sales that would be a Wii not a PS3.
.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Sony Computer Entertainment has announced PlayTV, a device that, when coupled with a PS3, turns the machine into a full digital video recorder (DVR). The device, which currently doesn't have a price or release date, will feature two high definition TV tuners that will allow users to record and/or watch two separate HD video streams on their PS3s.
The add-on will of course make use of the PSP connectivity by allowing users to record HD or SD shows on their PS3s, and then watch them on their PSPs. And because PlayTV is part of the PlayStation 3 family, it will be fully upgradeable with new features through PlayStation Network.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Ethernet port, lots of memory, DVR.
Just what the world needs, a MORE expensive game console.
Jack
No matter how many times you call it a game console, the PS3 is a media center. That includes HD movies and television, photos, music and, yes, games.
Again, the thing has 4 USB ports, bluetooth technology and a huge hard drive.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I think lots of folks realize this and plucked down the bucks versus the other players available. And I still believe many bought it with BD playback as the main reason! They can utilize other features as icing on the cake.
Why buy the others at their current price when the PS3 is capable of much more more than other BD players.
That curved surface also keeps me from putting the disc case directly on top of the player.
I've had a BB salesman tell me Sony doesn't really want you playing tooo many Blu-ray discs because it was designed more for game playback than "routine movie watching" (implying long term reliability issues perhaps?). Of course, they wanted to sell you more expensive standalone players.
no mention of the US in the article.
> > > No matter how many times you call it a game console, the PS3 is a media center < < <
Its still a game console, no matter what you call it. That's why its a Play Station. Its not a media center that can also do games and movies, its first and formost a game console that may have secondary uses. Thats why only 40% of its owners even know its lso a BD player (see my post down the page).
Jack
What player for BD is currently selling bang for buck at a better price? My priority for the PS3 is going to be for BD. Games, SACD, online, etc. will be secondary. I'm sure there are at least some folks that are doing the same. Then again, perhaps some parents will enjoy BD and the kids can play their games!
Yes, one can go with HD DVD but the lowering of the cost doesn't mean that format necessarily is going to win a war. It may entice some buyers but there are no guarantees!
... is the availability of rental movies, and it doesn't look like either one is setting that world on fire. VHS won out over Beta largely because of tape rentals, even though Beta was technically better. Having said that, DVD-Video is all the masses will need for a very long time.
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
simply because it was the cheapest Blu-ray player available.
The PS3 is big and ugly(IMO), and requires alot of airflow-more than the standalones. It also doesn't have an IR remote. The Sony 300 goes for $500, the new Samsung 1200 goes for $500, Panny's new model (same as old with updated FW) goes for $600. Samsung is coming out with 2 more models in another month or so. Sony will have a new standalone in a few months. There are lots of options out there, even for BD.
That said, there is a good chance that Mom and Dad will get an HD DVD player instead. Besides being cheaper, alot will have to do with preference of movies. The two formats tend to appeal to different target audiences. Also, right *now* there are more titles available on HD DVD than on BD, though that can change down the road.
Lots of goodies coming out down the road. :-)
Jack
For the Xbox or PS3 IMHO. :)
No doubt though that if prices of HD DVD players come down, it could influence some buyers on the fence between the two formats. Sitting on the sidelines though wouldn't be a bad place to be.
As I stated in an earlier thread, prices wars only confuse consumers even more when there is a format battle. It guarantees nothing.
Would you give kids a $500-600 game console that takes $60 games? Gosh.
Then let them take their game console into their room and hook it up to their SDTV.
Why on Earth would price wars confuse anybody? Now I'm confused.
Jack
which format wins is nonsense. JSP does not want a spork. He wants, if anything, a DVD player that will sit where his current one does.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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