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In Reply to: RE: What Is The Quality Of Uncompresed PCM From Optical? posted by Robertc88 on August 25, 2007 at 09:02:29
Should work though; Coax (and probably optical) supports 2-channel 24/96 uncompressed PCM provided your player and receiver are up to snuff (10 years ago that was usually not the case). E.g. I've used Coax to play back DADs which are 24/96 PCM stereo audio disks. You just can't pass 5.1 PCM over optical. Re: insufficient bandwidth.
I've fooled around with 2 channel TrueHD from the player's analog outputs and it sounds really clean, but I miss my surround sound. Hmmmm.... maybe I'll try the optical just for grins.
Follow Ups:
I'm unsure at this juncture how many BD discs actually have this is an audio option, probably not alot. Please let us know if you try optical for 2 channel uncompressed PCM.
I want to get better than what I've been use to with a coax or optical connection utilizing dolby digital on SD DVDs though some of the better ones (Master and Commander) rock just using a Denon AVR 3803! :)
Can't you do better than just 2 channel for True HD by using all of the analog inputs?
If you were intending to hook the source player's 5.1/7.1 analog outputs to the Denon's 7.1 analog inputs, that would be essentially what I'm doing in my system since I don't support HDMI audio. With the right player, you would then be able to play all the lossless audio tracks available on HD movies.
Of course, if you are also using the Denon's 8 channel input for your SACD and/or DVDA player, you are SOL. Unless you decide to be like me and invest in a switcher for switching multiple multichannel analog signal sets.
Something tells me this would be a no go since that would be my only option with my available equipment and something like the Sony 300 BD player. I think I would need an HDMI connection also to the display to get lossless from the audio outputs.The PS3 isn't going to work with a component connection for video and HDMI for audio to get lossless tracks. I would also need an HDMI connection to the display.
That's what I'm doing except inserting an HDMI-to-DVI adapter. You would only need the HDMI to pass digital audio.
Eventually I'll wind up with a video switcher of some kind. I'll have multiple (TBD?) HDMI sources feeding two displays (current one DVI and one probable HDMI. And it might be built into whatever pre/pro I elect to prochure.
Can't do it currently. My present display which is a Tosh 50" HDTV ready RPTV can only go 1080i and only component connection is available.
I think there are more folks than one may think at this point that are only running component for the video and perhaps only optical for the audio also.
If I can get lossless using the analog connections and run component for the video then I'll be getting a player this weekend, probably the Sony 300.
The PS3 only gives me the audio through optical at this point and I want more than those audio tracks if I'm going to take the plunge.
There is a video cable adapter currently available for around $200 that allows converting your component inputs on one's display to an HDMI input. But that is even more cash I'd have to lay out. I know I'll be stuck not being able to upconvert SD DVDs staying only with component but so long as I can watch those in 480p, I'm OK with that.
Had my friend try it this morning as I remembered on the audio settings for the PS3 on the menu one can able that option. When he tried it using video 1 optical on his Sony amp, it came back reading "PCM 48" on the readout screen when he first started playing "The Prestige".
It is just something else I can try on my Denon 3803 when I get a player. I doubt it is the best option per se but it is fun messing with this stuff! :)
I really haven't been doing SACD MCH with the Denon lately. It is just much better using my Rogue tube pre amps for 2 channel and enjoying SACD that way. That frees up my audio analog inputs for BD!
Separate MC SACD (actually Universal) SACD player plus a separate 2-channel modded 777ES SACD player feeding a battery powered tubed preamp (I have to swap out connections (preamp to the amp) though for stereo listening).
Now to figure out how I'm going to acquire five (5) 1000W tubed monoblocks for HT. Though that will probably be "easier" to get then that uber-Universal, full-featured player with 7.1 true balanced analog outputs, SOTA DACs and TrueHD/DTS HD MA decoding.
There are quite a few Blu rays with uncompressed LPCM, DTS HD MA, and TrueHD. See link below. There is nothing technical holding back the Studios from releasing lossless audio tracks on Blu-ray movies. I strongly suspect HD DVD has to perform PQ vs. AQ tradeoffs due to bandwidth/capacity limitations before deciding to include lossless audio (which is in the shorter supply on HD DVD titles).
Your ability to play them back will depend on the hardware in your system. In my system, I don't have an HDMI-capable component other than the source player. I run HDMI directly to a DVI projector via an HDMI/DVI adapter. I run the player's 5.1 analog audio outputs to a multichannel (MC) analog preamp. The Player's coax (or optical, if desired) goes to a preamp/processor where DD/DTS decoding is accomplished and the pre/pro converts to 5.1 analog to the MC analog preamp.
The player supports the following analog outputs.
TrueHD 2 channel (HD DVD only)
TrueHD 5.1 (Blu-Ray only)
DTS 1.5Mbps core (only - Despite the DTS HD logo on the player)
DDplus (though I suspect this is really no better than DD
uncompressed LPCM 5.1
The player routes the following over Coax with capabilities similar as that for DVD players:
DTS 1.5Mbps
DD 5.1
2-channel LPCM ???? (I've never used it).
I haven't figured out HDMI well enough to figure out what it takes to support uncompressed PCM or DTS HD MA or DTS HD MR. My impression is the DTS HD MA decoding capability will need to reside in the player at a minimum. I don't know the specifics since I don't plan on buying an HDMI 1.3 pre/pro or DTS HD MA-capable source player in the near-term. And may not buy before the format war is resolved (if ever).
> > There is nothing technical holding back the Studios from releasing lossless audio tracks on Blu-ray movies. < <
Here's something I've wondered about, and I hope someone knows the answer:
The standard for cinema films for many years now has been matrix and/or compressed, lossy soundtracks (Dolby SR, Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.).
So, if that's what's on the majority of commercial films that have been produced in the past 20+ years, how do you get a lossless soundtrack from that?
The digital soundtracks in theaters have indeed been lossy versions. However, DTS actually has a system in some theaters that will deliver a losslessly-encoded bit-for-bit copy of the original soundtrack. This DTS system is only available in a very limited number of theaters (that famous theater in San Francisco is one of them).
The master that is used to create the lossy soundtracks you hear in theaters is usually a 24/48, 24/96, 20/48 or 20/96 PCM recording. So while you only get a lossy soundtrack in nearly every commercial theater, your home theater can actually present, via Blu-ray or HD DVD, a higher fidelity version than the "cram ten screens in a building the size of a gas station" local multi-plex.
What are you utilizing for the audio output from your PS3, basically which equipment and which audio track? Just curious at this point.
Maybe you can help me out with the following. I'm planning to get a rather cheap Onyko SR 605 AVR that folks have been utilizing for lossless but I'm unsure if it would work in my case. I would be doing a component connection from the PS3 to my display which is only capable of 1080i at this point, no HDMI available on the display. I'd run HDMI from the PS3 to that Onkyo AVR. Is this a option viable for lossless in this case? TIA!
The Onkyo 605 can handle decodes of the lossless formats, but no one can pass them to it at this time. The PS3 can send uncompressed multi-channel PCM via its HDMI port, but at the moment it can't -- and probably never will -- send the lossless formats undecoded via HDMI (ie, the lossless format can be decoded and then sent as uncompressed PCM like it does for Dolby TrueHD right now and will possibly do for DTS-HD MA in the future).
I don't know if the PS3 will do analog video at 1080i and simultaneously provide the same via HDMI (if I had to bet, I'd say it can). Check at AVS Forum: I'm sure the answer is there.
Also, check the threads on the Onkyo 605. I haven't read them in a few weeks, but I believe a few people had problems with a "popping" or "crackling" sound with this model. It may have been certain serial numbers or it may have been widespread -- I can't remember.
Right now I have my PS3 set to 1080i hooked up to my 6UY 50" Panasonic plasma via an HDMI-DVI cable. Unfortunately, at this time my audio -- 2-channel analog -- is being sent directly to the plasma via the A/V multi-connector. Please don't ask why.
Some of the threads generate a couple hundred posts. I'll just post a message there. I rather not buy and test on my end. Hopefully I can get an answer to my request for info.
I believe some of the 605s were recalled. The retailer I'm dealing with is waiting for a new shipment.
.
There have been lots of early adapters who asked questions and were weighing their options. Not all I anticipate will get it right the first time with setup but hopefully that isn't because of the lack of proper equipment.
J6P walking into a B&M store just plucking down bucks on equipment without research though I strongly forewarn!
The audio will be very important to some folks more so than others just like with SD DVD. It is to me and I appreciate all that folks have had to offer on audio playback regarding these formats.
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