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In Reply to: RE: Samsung BD-UP5000 (dual format) Shipping...for 799 posted by townsend on December 06, 2007 at 18:10:23
I don't have the rackspace or the inputs available for two more disc players in my big system, and the new price tag is low enough that I can rationalize this player as a carry-over until someone comes out with a better one.Prior to official announce it was unclear whether the player would do 1080p/24 on both Blu-ray and HD DVD. Some sources were saying 24fps was only possible with Blu-ray. That would have been a show-stopper for me. I just finished reading the manual online, and it says that 24fps works with both.
The only trepidation I have (other than the fact that it's a Samsung) is that the manual is absolutely bursting with warnings of potential incompatibilities and possible future playback problems. I know there's problems with the formats right now, especially with Blu-ray, but the manual was a mind-blower.
Edits: 12/06/07Follow Ups:
LG and Samsung CE owners -- here's the usual look, not long after their purchase:
I don't know what it is, but I keep buying stupid Sony crap, even though I know I shouldn't. Every time, I think, "Surely, THIS one will work ok." Every time, I end up with that expression. Then I go and do it again! It's madness! Madness!
Sony, Samsung, Sanyo, Sharp, what's the difference? It's all the same basic craptacular gadgets built in the same Chinese factory :-)
By far I'm not a "Sony is the greatest" type of person (I'm sure you know what type of person I'm talking about), but nearly all of the Sony electronics I've purchased have been reliable and served the purpose they were designed for. Maybe I've just had good luck or perhaps I'm just a good judge of product longevity/capability when it comes to Sony.
I wouldn't purchase a Samsung or LG product unless the cost was "free". This opinion is based on what I've seen them offer, the complaints that owners' have and the compatibility issues that always seem to come up with these two manufacturers. Neither is worth the headache nor the heartache.
Perhaps you need to just get it over with and purchase a PS3, even if it's only the 40GB model. You don't have to tell anyone, either. Promise.
:-)
> > nearly all of the Sony electronics I've purchased have been reliable and served the purpose they were designed for. < <
My results have been much more mixed. Out of all the television sets I've owned over the decades, I've only had two that needed repair - both were Sonys. The issue and repair experiences with the second one were an absolute disaster - not just for me, but for everyone who bought one of the twelve model lines that experienced the problem.
My cousin had a Sony Betamax VCR back in the day. The thing was in the shop constantly before he finally trashcanned it. OTOH, I have a Sony VHS VCR, and it works fine (doesn't get much use anymore though).
I've had several Sony disc players. An original Sony Discman, which still works today. A SCD-1, which was fine except for the "burst of noise" problem. My disastrous repair experience with that was well-documented on the Hi-rez forum. OTOH, lots of people have had spindle motor problems with their SCD-1 and SCD-777ES players.
A Sony DVP-NS999ES, which was the flagship DVD/SACD player a few years back. It had an excellent picture, and made nice SACD noises, except that it was very, very cranky about successfully playing rental DVDs. I got so frustrated with Netflix that I cancelled my subscription before realizing that it was the player's fussiness, not Netflix' problem. I ended up giving it to a friend.
A Sony Blu-ray player, which is also cranky about playing rental discs.
My wife bought a Sony Vaio laptop because a friend had one and she decided it was too cute and small not to buy. I suspected it would turn out to be a piece of crap, and I was right. Nothing but failures and problems, and once again, Sony service turned out to be worse than useless.
> > Maybe I've just had good luck or perhaps I'm just a good judge of product longevity/capability when it comes to Sony. < <
Maybe you've had good luck, 'cause the "good judge" thing is pure puffery :-)
I think Sony's reputation for reliability is overrated, and is no longer deserved. Even so, it's a good thing that most of their stuff is mostly reliable, because their service is godawful.
> > I wouldn't purchase a Samsung or LG product unless the cost
was "free". This opinion is based on what I've seen them offer, the complaints that owners' have and the compatibility issues that always seem to come up with these two manufacturers. Neither is worth the headache nor the heartache. < <
I bought a Samsung CRT color television in 1985, and ended up giving it away in 1992 to buy a larger set. The Samsung worked great for the entire time I had it, and the person who has it now still uses it (and it works great).
I bought a Samsung HD STB a few years back when I lived in an area where I could reliably receive OTA HD broadcasts. It worked great.
I know several people with current Samsung TVs, and they've been quite reliable. I've heard and read more complaints about Sony TVs.
I don't have much experience with LG, other than having a Goldstar microwave oven that's around 25 years old and still works just fine. I know of one "hi-end" AV store that carries LG TVs, and they tell me the LGs are just as reliable as anything else they carry (they carry Sony too).
> > Perhaps you need to just get it over with and purchase a PS3, even if it's only the 40GB model. < <
Why would I want to do that? I don't need another game console. The PS3 doesn't have any exclusive games that I'm interested in, and for me it would make a lousy Blu-ray player. From what I can see, there are only two ways to get MC audio out of it - HDMI or Toslink. HDMI won't be an option until somebody builds a quality processor with HDMI audio capability, and Toslink means I would be limited to Dolby Digital or garden-variety DTS. That would eliminate the only real-world advantage that Blu-ray has over HD DVD.
If the PS3 truly is the best Blu-ray player on the market, that's a sad commentary on Sony's current product engineering skills. A stand-alone player, especially a stand-alone player that is more expensive than a game console, should be a better platform for Blu-ray. If that's not the case, and I keep reading from Blu-boys and PS3 fan-boys that the PS3 is better than the stand-alone players, that's a strong indication of how much Sony sucks these days.
Are you and Duilawyer related? Or maybe one-in-the-same? Your Sony experience sounds no better than the many "My is in the shop again..." or "When will make a reliable product..." posts he has made.
> > Maybe I've just had good luck or perhaps I'm just a good judge of product longevity/capability when it comes to Sony. < <
Maybe you've had good luck, 'cause the "good judge" thing is pure puffery :-)
Not pure puffery, but your misunderstanding.
As for the PS3 comment, it was meant to be a joke (there was a smiley at the end). But as per your usual, you had reach for something to bash Sony or discredit the Blu-ray format. I could recommend that you wait for the Denon (should they release a Blu-ray player in the near future), but then you would only come back with a "Why does investing in Blu-ray cost so much?" comment.
It seems that nothing Blu-ray does pleases you, so why keep complaining when your dislike is a done deal? Would it not be better to talk about what you like about HD DVD instead of attacking Blu-ray (ie, post pro-HD DVD, instead of anti-Blu-ray)?
GFY
Expected, but still rather sad. That said, at least think about my suggestion when you calm down.
Tell you what, Junior - if I decide I need stupid suggestions, valueless commentary, and pointless invective, I'll be sure to ask you since you've obviously got the market cornered.
As to calming down, you have never seen me anything but calm. When I told you to GFY, I meant it in the nicest possible way.
At the time i bought the SCD-777ES, they had 5 year warranties which seems pretty darn good for a digital source. I don't think Sony has an ES series Blu-ray player but than again, I haven't been canvassing very closely either.
Then I discovered the joys of Sony Service.
Sony's service organization is the most egalitarian group on the planet. Regardless of whether you bought a $50 digital gadget, or a $5000 "statement" SACD player, or a $15,000 SXRD digital projector, they treat you exactly the same. Same crappy "response" center, same incompetent service technicians, same mind-numbing corporate bureaucracy and buck-passing.
They do have an ES Blu-ray player. It is Profile 1.0, and $1300.
I've since done modest mods to the unit with a local tech (just past the warranty period) and with the next "hiccough", I intend to mod it to the hilt. I don't know any better but I get the impression a lot of people seem to think the 777ES makes an excellent transport/player as a digital source.
I've had nothing but terrible experiences with Sony service.
It didn't stop him from buying the LG BH100 because he's a believer in dual format players and felt he didn't have much of a choice.
A PS3 and one of the Toshiba players: he could have then purchased a shitload of movies with the savings.
,
In fact, I was mildly surprised it held it's value so well given it was an "early adopter" player. It's still the best player for my situation but I'll seriously consider replacing/supplanting it with a player which can internally decode DTS HD MA for the 5.1 analog outputs (better DACs, decoding algorithms, power supplies, subsonic/bass filtering options would be useful as well).
> > I'll seriously consider replacing/supplanting it with a player which can internally decode DTS HD MA for the 5.1 analog outputs < <
Although Samsung says that DTS-HD is one of the decoded formats, it sure doesn't say anything about DTS-HD Master Audio.
Pure speculation on my part, but I'd be willing to bet that its DTS-HD decode capability is confined to "core" (IOW, it's really just doing garden-variety DTS decoding).
I think it's going to be quite a while before we see any players that can do internal decoding of anything other than DTS core. It's too bad, because I've got a brand-new concert HD DVD with a DTS-HD soundtrack sitting next to me. Oh well.
I thought I was getting DTS HD MA.... whoops. Still the 1.5m core DTS is pretty good, better than almost everything I had on DVD.
The Denon was supposed to be able to decode DTS HD MA but now I'm not so sure; it may simply bitstream it over HDMI in which I'd need an HDMI-capable preamp/processor. That's not in the cards anytime soon.
> > it may simply bitstream it over HDMI in which I'd need an HDMI-capable preamp/processor. < <
So far it seems that this is the only way to get anything other than DTS core from the current hi-def media.
> > That's not in the cards anytime soon. < <
Indeed. So far the only pre/pro I'm aware of that even has the capability of decoding the new stuff is the Integra. It's just an upper-end Onkyo A/V receiver with the amp section stripped out. It's even got a radio tuner in it!
I'll take his word for it but at $10K that's a bit steep and I'm not sure the Halcro's preamp stage is any better than my own.
Unless Halcro is keeping their advanced codec capability a secret. :-)
I'm not surprised you think the Halcro's preamp stage is inferior to yours. IIRC, the Halcro digitizes everything from its analog inputs.
hence, why I went with a low WAF pro-audio, multichannel analog preamp solution. Unfortunately it's suddenly become inconvenient for my system to only support one (1) optical audio input at a time.
I have a Lexicon processor now. It's front-ended by a "real" preamp for the two front channels, through the preamp's processor unity-gain loop.The Lexicon is an excellent processor, and even has "real" multi-channel analog pass-through, but it's still primariliy a digital device. When I switch from two-channel to multi-channel music I get lots of benefits from MC, but there's a noticeable loss in transparency and clarity. The Lexicon sounds somewhat more closed-in, and there's a slight "grain" to the music which I theorize is created by all the digital circuitry in the processor section.
The problem is that if I go all-analog, I lose the capability of connecting digital devices that don't have multi-channel analog outs (a gaming console, for instance), and I'm left with the limited processing capability of the decoders built in to my source devices. I have yet to find a player that does a better job on Dolby Digital or DTS than the Lexicon.
It's a real pickle, to be sure.
After all, the Meitner can't do any more "damage" than the Proceed already has done. I also feed the Meitner 6 channel analog feeds from a DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD Universal player and more recently a 6 channel feed from the LG Dual format player. An HD source player with "audiophile-grade" DACs/power supplies/audio/video decoding etc is the next step but that may not happen for several years (if at all).
I've tried both a McCormack and the Meitner multichannel analog preamps and both killed the Proceed on preamp performance. I guess having to deal with video processing and digital switching/volume control in the same box simply compromises analog preamp performance too much.
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