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The Warner announcement would seem to be the death blow for HD-DVD. Too bad, because I don't think there's any BD player out that can compete with my Toshiba HD-XA2 for its combination of picture and sound quality, reliability, and ease of use. I have not needed to do any updates to it and it has played every disc I have thrown into it perfectly. Of course it can't play Blu-ray discs, which now appears to be a major problem.I want to buy a Blu-ray player, preferably today. Best Buy has a 10 disc free offer (5 by mail and 5 instantly in store) that ends today. They have a Sharp BDHP20U for $399.99 or the new Sony BDP-S500 for $699.99. Anyone have experience with these?
Thanks in advance for any (useful) thoughts.
Edits: 01/05/08Follow Ups:
and have or plan a new reciever with dts HD MA decoding.
Samsung BD-P1400 and Panasonic DMP-BD30K have HDMI output with dts HD Master Audio, and many Fox movies have this audio format.
was much appreciated. Thanks . . . it's nice to know that even if one goes blu-ray, one can pick up "Children of Men" as a region 2 blu-ray playable on region 1 blu-ray players.
When the format war is over, I hope this forum can be a place to exchange information, benefitting everybody.
The Panasonic BD30 is profile 1.1 and seems to be one of the best standalone players at the moment. I have a Samsung 1200 that is a great in terms of picture quality but its firmware is buggy. If I were to buy today it would by the Panny, but I think I'll wait and see what Denon announces at CES before I look to upgrade.
.
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I thought some people here were reporting problems with the Panasonic BD30? Best Buy has it for $499.99. Do you think it is worth the extra $100 over the Sharp? My original thought was to either get the Sony at $699 as a "keeper" or the $399 Sharp as a temporary solution until the real, reliable Blu-ray players come out. Now seems like a good time to jump in because of the Warner announcement and the Best Buy 10 free disc offer.
Well, there's no perfect Blu-ray player, but from what I have been able to gather, the Panny seems fairly dependable - more so than any standalone Sony (with the exception of the P3). User reviews over at AVS are pretty good. Amazon has the Panny for about $400. I really don't know much about the Sharp, other than its ugly ;)
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Plus, and correct me if I'm wrong, the PS3 doesn't have analog 5.1 outputs or a Dolby TrueHD decoder.
that also has a nice Blu-ray hard drive you can use to store photos, music or other useful content. Nifty console.
Yes, it does do True HD. You'll need to use it with HDMI, though, as it doesn't have analog outputs. constant updates to keep it current.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
You may have already made up your mind, but the link I've provided is a vey quick read and very interesting.
I don't own the PS3 by the way and IF I get a BluRay player it'll be a year or two down the line.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
"This really is all pretty major stuff, and in this reviewer's opinion by default makes the PS3 currently the only Blu-ray player actually worth buying."
In my case, the lack of 5.1 analog outputs makes it a clear non-player for my situation. YMMV.
In case you haven't seen it, the Silicon Image info for the HDMI chip that the PS3 uses states that only the step-up chip does bitstream of the advanced audio codecs.
Thanks, Chris. But the problem with the PS3, other than it being a game unit, is that it doesn't do high definition audio - no Dolby TrueHD.
And as a matter of fact, it will decode all 7.1 channels of Dolby TrueHD. This was confirmed by Roger Dressler of Dolby: a 7.1 TrueHD mix was made from some AIX Recordings to promote Dolby TrueHD at a trade show. There are some players on the market that only do 5.1 channels of Dolby TrueHD.
This capability isn't being used by the studios at this time for Dolby TrueHD (7.1 channels); however, there are some LPCM (which the PS3 handles) and DTS-HD Master Audio titles where 7.1 is being used and it would be nice if the PS3 got a firmware upgrade to handle this format. Many in the industry speculate that Sony is deliberately holding off on this so that other manufacturers can get DTS-HD Master Audio working in their stand-alone players. The cell processor in the PS3 certainly has the power to handle the decoding duties.
.
I've heard that the PS3:
...won't be upgraded to Profile 1.1
...won't be able to play DivX movies
...won't be able to scale DVDs
...won't be able to output 1080p24
...won't be able to decode Dolby Digital Plus
...won't be able to output YCbCr
...won't be able to play AVC content
...won't be able to cook my breakfast
Well, I made the last one up. Anyway, see a
I believe the only Sony insider David could be talking about is paidgeek, as the SCEA insider hasn't shown up at Blu-ray.com yet (though he/she is probably too involved with CES business right now). If paid says "it's coming", then it's pretty much coming.
By the way, David's thoughts pretty much mirror mine as to why the PS3 hasn't been updated to "full blast" yet. I'll further say that it may not be until the end of 2008 that PS3 firmware updates slow down (right now they're at about every other month).
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
"Thanks, Chris. But the problem with the PS3, other than it being a game unit, is that it doesn't do high definition audio - no Dolby TrueHD."
Understood, and in fact it's the launching of BluRay players which patently weren't/aren't ready for the market and which lack the full BluRay spec which prevent me from even considering a player this year and possibly next.
At least HD-DVD is the finished deal and the players are receiving reviews that BluRay players can only dream about as yet.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
I think they have little faith in Blu-ray going further than HD. Of course, they still had PLENTY of HD players.
Fox do a lot of dts HD MA, and few players can do it.
And the PS3 costs no more than most dedicated Blu-Ray players. I may get a dedicated Blu-Ray player once the prices come down. In the mean time I think the PS3 is the best bang for the buck - if you also like games.
At the moment, it appears that Blu-Ray is taking a lead with HD DVD falling behind.
The format war is over. HD lost. My unit got returned. I am not saying Bluray will last either, I don't think it will, but it is the only viable candidate at this point.
I hope the Blu-Ray format lasts for a while longer than the laser disc. If it lasts as long as VHS or DVD, I'll be happy. ;-)
that its new format, the CD would be the format of music "INTO THE 21st CENTURY!!!" Course that was only 18 years later but, pretty much true.
Why? Because more and more people are finally getting into HDTV.
CRT TV's are on their way out.
I'm so sad. What am I going to do when my SONY KV34XBR is finished.?
LCD yuck.. Plasma, yuck..
Anyway. HDTV's are the thing.
With laser disk there weren't any HDTV's to really appreciate it with.
Now with HDTV's people can appreciate the differences between DVD and BR.
Notice I didn't say BR and HD DVD?
Bye bye HD DVD.
.
...you should wait until Profile 1.1 players are generally available.
If you can't wait, the Sharp is better than any of the Sonys.
Thanks for reminding me about the Blu-ray profile issue. Although I have heard about the existence of different profiles, I hadn't explored the issue until you brought it up. Since I am really only interested in playing the movies and maybe watching some of the extra features, it seems that a Profile 1.0 player should be good enough for now. Profile 1.1 only seems to add some interactivity features that I am not interested in. If I understand correctly, all future Blu-ray movie releases must still be able to play on profile 1.0 players.
I found this post by Richard Paul on the AVS forum that seems to explain it clearly (link to full thread at bottom):
Blu-ray player profiles explained in detail
Over the last year I have read much on the issue of Blu-ray player profiles from various insiders and websites and based on what I have read have made this thread about them. There is one Blu-ray spec and in it there are four profiles including an audio only profile that does not require BD-J or video playback since it was made only for audio playback. Leaving out the audio only profile from this thread there are three player profiles made for video playback. After October 31st of 2007 all new Blu-ray players must meet the requirements for at least Bonus View though older Blu-ray players can continue to be sold. Here are the requirements for the three Blu-ray player profiles:
Profile 1.0:
64 KB of built in persistent memory required
no additional persistent memory capability required
no outlining support for text based subtitles required
no SD PiP decoding required
no secondary audio decoding required
no internet capability required
Bonus View:
64 KB of built in persistent memory required
256 MB of persistent memory capability required
outlining support for text based subtitles required
SD PiP decoding required
secondary audio decoding required
no internet capability required
BD-Live:
64 KB of built in persistent memory required
1 GB of persistent memory capability required
outlining support for text based subtitles required
SD PiP decoding required
secondary audio decoding required
internet capability required
Frequently Asked Questions (last updated December 19, 2007)
1. What are the three Blu-ray player profiles called?
In the technical documents the profiles were called Profile 1.0, Profile 1.1, and Profile 2.0. Profile 1.0 was called Grace Period Profile and Initial Standard Profile by the BDA workgroups. Profile 1.1 was called Final Standard Profile by the BDA workgroups and will be marketed as Bonus View. Profile 2.0 was called BD-Live by the BDA workgroups and will be marketed as BD-Live.
2. Why are there three Blu-ray player profiles?
All three player profiles for Blu-ray were originally made back at the time the Blu-ray specs were originally made. At that time it was known that to cost effectively implement certain features such as SD PiP decoding would require the development of new decoding chips that would be capable of dual stream video decoding. The plan was to eventually replace the Profile 1.0 specs with the Bonus View specs by requiring all new players released after a certain date to meet the requirements for Bonus View. The BD-Live specs were to be optional for those who wanted to connect their Blu-ray player to the internet.
3. Is BD-J a requirement for all Blu-ray players?
Yes, all three Blu-ray player profiles require BD-J support and will be capable of normal BD-J interactivity for menus and games. Note though that certain extras might require features that require the player to be Bonus View or BD-Live compliant.
4. Should I wait for Bonus View or BD-Live players?
That depends. Though stand alone Profile 1.0 players will always be capable of playing Blu-ray movies and normal BD-J interactivity most of them will not be capable of certain extras such as SD PiP decoding. If you are interested in those extras than it would be best to wait for stand alone Blu-ray players to be released that support them.
> > If I understand correctly, all future Blu-ray movie releases must still be able to play on profile 1.0 players. < <
"Must" is not the correct word. "May" is the correct word. Straight from the manuals for the current crop (Profile 1.0) of Sony players:
This player supports BD-ROM Profile 1 only. Playback of later versions and BDs other than BD-ROM is not guaranteed. Since the Blu-ray Disc specifications are new and evolving, some discs may not play depending on the disc type and the version.
Oh crap. That complicates matters. What do you think the likelihood of major releases over the next year or so not being compliant with 1.0 players is?
This is why I went with HD-DVD in the first place!
> > What do you think the likelihood of major releases over the next year or so not being compliant with 1.0 players is? < <
Low. My opinion is that as long as existing players are properly supported by their manufacturers, basic movie playback functions will work on 1.0 players.
One factor to consider is that if Blu-ray does manage to eliminate HD DVD as a threat, there will no longer be any competitive pressure to add new features or functions to Blu-ray. The BDA can let the technology stagnate without much fear. So, it's entirely possible that Profile 1.1 will be the ultimate expression of Blu-ray capability.
"I think the fat lady just sang," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst with Enderle Group in San Jose. "This gives Blu-ray a decisive lead. The question now is whether it is too little too late."
Enderle said consumers might have moved on to digital downloads to get movies rather than wait to buy them on next-generation DVDs. The next big chance to sell high-definition movie players won't be until next Christmas, he said. "By then, it may all be moot."
Although Best Buy's website claims that the Panasonic BD30 has analog 5.1 outputs, it looks like I'll give the Sharp a try. Any player I buy now is a temporary solution, so there's no sense paying the extra hundred dollars.
There is a lesson here today for those buying high rez format players. Costco!
The BD30 does have 5.1 outputs. I was thinking of a different player. Sorry for the error.
Thanks for your help.
...even though the Panasonic BD30 does have 5.1 analog outs, the only way to get TrueHD or DTS-MA is via HDMI bitstream. The player does not decode either of these internally.
i find that criminal. They need to either drop DTS-ma, or make more machines that internally decode it.
Jack
Any new players announced at the upcoming Winter Consumer Electronics Show should be all 1.1-compliant, and with the latest firmware update, so is Playstation 3. PS/3 itself is a pretty safe, if flawed, bet. But there has been little word on 1.1 updates for other existing Blu-Ray players, and I have to assume that they are non-upgradeable.
There is also a Profile 2.0 spec, and PS/3 probably has the needed hardware, but so far no one actually supports 2.0, and I don't think it will be a big deal in the future either.
Anything announced at CES will take a while, in some cases forever, before they hit the stores. If he's in a hurry, the sharp is the way to go.
jack
Neither one is 1.1 compliant. I have the Sharp, and for the most part its pretty good. I've been underwhelmed with Sony's offerings. Both will probably need a FW update.
Jack
Thanks. Right now I'm leaning toward the Sharp. I know you have the Toshiba XA1 which should be very similar to my XA2. How does the picture quality between the Toshiba and the Sharp compare?
For DVds, the Sharp is a little better. As far as HD DVD Vs. BD, they are comparable. I actually did an A/B comparison of the same encode, with the two formats, and found the Sharp and the A1 *slightly* different, but comparable.
I think you'll be happy with it.
Note: it will probably need a FW update.
Jack
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