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Yes, HD-DVD may be on life-support and even it's staunchest advocates will probably end up holding their virtual noses and drinking the Kool Aid eventually, but at least the format provided value and met the consumer's needs for high resolution without caveats better than Blu-ray. Just because SONY may win the war attrition (via a sucker-punch from a studio more concerned with short-term profits than long term customer satisfaction) doesn't mean that consumers will reap the rewards.Paul Smith's comments (which I've linked below as a weighty counter-balance to Jazz Inmate's never ending napalm-pom Blu-ray advocacy & egoism):
Edits: 01/15/08Follow Ups:
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;0)
Who the heck is Paul Smith anyway? Let's have a look, shall we? From the upper right part of the page you linked:
> > I'm an astronomer and sceptic. < <
Well, either he can't spell skeptic or he's posting from a sceptic tank.
> > Some of my astro-photos can be found in my gallery. < <
We know he's a space case, in a manner of speaking.
> > Politically I'm a socialist, a member of the Yeovil Labour Party, the Labour Representation Committee and stand for the liberation and the improvement of living standards for all working people, I don't believe that is possible with capitalism. < <
We know he has shunned reality.
> > The main areas of technology I'm interested in is computing. I'm a Microsoft MVP for Windows and am actively involved in several online communities. < <
We know he's an MS blowhard.
> > I also co-host a PC and console game related podcast called Gamercast, as well as running several websites largely related to gaming. For people offering decent employment opportunities here's my resume. < <
We know he can't afford a PS3 because he can't land a job.
Nice "expert" you found there, auph.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Blu-ray future limited for some
Blu-ray
Blu-ray received a boost at CES with Warner's exclusive deal
Owners of Blu-ray DVD players may find themselves frozen out of future developments in the technology because their machines are not upgradeable.
The Blu-ray camp has recently rolled out new features for players, which include picture in picture options.
But the majority of Blu-ray players sold to date do not have the necessary hardware to offer the features.
Some discs already come with a note telling users that they may need to upgrade software in their machine.
In some discs, the note reads: "To ensure the best possible viewing experience, your Blu-ray disc player may need a firmware or software update."
But these updates relate to improvements in playback and do not offer a pathway to the new features.
The issue has arisen as Blu-ray attempts to offer new features to compete with rival standard HD-DVD.
When the first Blu-ray machines were launched the hardware requirements for manufacturers did not include provision for planned developments.
The guys that bought the first Blu-ray players are the guys who bought the first laser discs. They know the risks.
Instead Blu-ray players were divided into so-called "profiles", with all machines released before November 2007 designated as profile 1.0.
Machines released onto the market since November are called profile 1.1, but none of the standalone Blu-ray players can be upgraded to accommodate this profile.
Films will still play on the machines, but access to extra features is limited.
Later this year the Blu-ray camp will offer profile 2.0, called BD Live, which will allow the players which support the feature to connect to the internet to download related content, such as ringtones, trailers and photos.
But because internet functionality is not a mandatory requirement in current players, none on the market today will be able to access the feature.
The only Blu-ray player which can upgraded to use all the features is Sony's PlayStation 3, because it comes with the right hardware built-in and online access.
Consumer confusion
Frank Simonis, of Philips and the European chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association, said the division of Blu-ray players into potentially three camps was "not an ideal situation".
But he denied that consumers would be confused.
The discussions related to features took place at a point in time when every hardware company had frozen the architecture for their first generation of players
Frank Simonis, Philips
"Whether you have a profile 1.0, or profile 1.1 machine, the playback is not disturbed. It's the high definition playback that consumers are seeking."
Philips has just released its first player which supports profile 1.1 and Mr Simonis confirmed that older players could not be upgraded.
Mr Simonis said the reason Blu-ray backers had launched players which could not be upgraded was one of timing.
He said: "The discussions relating to features took place at a point in time when every hardware company had frozen the architecture for their first generation of players.
"We needed to create momentum and get the players on the market. If we had postponed launch to add in the hardware for the latest features, we would not be in the situation we have today."
The release of players which cannot be upgraded was unlikely to ease consumer confusion around high definition DVD players, said Alastair Upham, editor of DVD Review magazine.
"One of the big problems with the Blu-ray format when launched, and something which gave the HD-DVD camp ammunition, was that Blu-ray wasn't finished - they hadn't agreed on a standard.
"And that problem means that an early adopter of Blu-ray could have spent £1,000 on a player only to find he potentially can't play newer releases.
Blu-ray boost
"So while there are discs out there with better features, if you have an earlier player you can't take advantage of this."
The Blu-ray camp received a boost at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas last week when film studio Warner dropped support for HD-DVD in favour of its rival.
But Mr Upham said the format had a lot of work yet to do to reassure consumers they are safe to upgrade from DVD.
He added: "If Blu-ray wants to reach a wider audience, it needs to have more clarity."
But he said the likely victims of the Blu-ray profiles issue was almost certainly a limited audience.
"The guys that bought the first Blu-ray players are the guys who bought the first laser discs. They know the risks."
> > > "Well, either he can't spell skeptic or he's posting from a sceptic tank." < < <For you to attack someone's English skills especially when the author is obviously English (the discussion of pounds should've given you the clue) is somewhat like Captain Renault being shocked about gambling going on at Rick's Cafe Americain. BTW, sceptic IS the appropriate British Commonwealth spelling you nincompoop! LOL! 8^D
> > > "We know he's a space case, in a manner of speaking." < < <
Far be it from YOU to be judgmental of space hobbies; BTW, how is your tin-foil hat fitting these days? ;0)
> > > "We know he has shunned reality." < < <
The British obviously have a better grasp of reality than you; no one with an IQ above that of a gnat would endorse the leave-no-millionaire-behind political philosophy that you embrace, but that discussion belongs on another forum.
> > > "We know he's an MS blowhard." < < <
So, what does that make you, a SONY butt-monkey? :O)
> > > "We know he can't afford a PS3 because he can't land a job." < < <
Who can, especially if the fanboy PS3's Blu-ray specifications become obsolete in less than a year! So, let me get this straight: you endorse class warfare as part of SONY's 'final solution', right? - *ahem* - Maybe that "funny video" that you linked has more in common with Blue-ray's bunker mentality for world domination than it does with HD's losing ground! ;0}
Regards,
AuPh
> > BTW, sceptic IS the appropriate British Commonwealth spelling you nincompoop! < <Yeah, but the crack about the sceptic tank was too good to pass up. English or not, the guy is not what anyone sane would call a realist.
> > So, what does that make you, a SONY butt-monkey? < <
I've never worked for or accepted anything from Sony. Clearly your pundit du jour, Paul Smith, is involved with Microsoft. He calls himself an MS MVP, and Microsoft gives a software gift to its MVPs. So while I am not a shill, the idiot you seem to bestow your respect upon clearly IS a shill, showing you for the hypocrite you truly are.
> > Who can, especially if the fanboy PS3's Blu-ray specifications become obsolete in less than a year! < <
You really believe that? I feel sorry for you, auph.
> > So, let me get this straight: you endorse class warfare as part of SONY's 'final solution', right? - *ahem* - Maybe that "funny video" that you linked has more in common with Blue-ray's bunker mentality for world domination than it does with HD's losing ground! < <
Just take your cyanide pill with the rest of you HD DVD nutcases and be done with it, auph. We need to move on.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
The HD war ain't over and she ain't singin' yet! This must stick in SONY fanboys craw; Heimlich maneuver may be required:
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
;0)
Dueling formats wasn't doing anyone any good other than the dual format player manufacturers. If anything, it was holding back HD media adoption by keeping a ton of folks sitting on the fence.
(nt)
> > 1) Region free. < <HD DVD would have to offer a spec for region coding if it expected to be a serious contender to replace DVD. Studios would not offer their entire output on a format that was completely region free. They need to protect their distribution privileges and would do so, by law. The fact that HD DVD managed to fumble through its first couple years without providing region encoding seems doesn't mean it would do so much longer.
> > 2) Less draconian copy protection. < <
The flip side of that is: imminently pirate-able. Studios don't like that. They do like copy protection.
> > 3) Finalised specification. < <
Yeah, but not enough open spec or capacity to realistically compete with Blu-ray.
> > 4) Cost. < <
It's just as expensive as Blu-ray. Toshiba decided to drastically reduce the price of its hardware to single-handedly try to resuscitate the format. They are failing. How you HD DVD dudes took this as an indication that HD DVD is actually cheaper than blu-ray moving forward is anybody's guess.
> > There's also the whole sensible and descriptive name, better picture quality and questionable reliability with Blu-ray, and the fact Blu-ray was a format created to divide the industry, but those are all secondary to the above in my opinion. < <
You call this empirical? We have film directors like Bay and Spielberg who have evaluated their material on both formats and claim Blu-ray to be superior. As for the name, that's an opinion, not empirical evidence.
> > If Blu-ray wins, what happens?
1) Bob Public buys a film on holiday, brings it home and find it doesn't work. < <My PS3 has played every Blu-ray I've thrown at it--dozens of titles. I understand some have had problems, but they're in the minority.
> > 2) Joe Public buys a film, expects to be able to legally copy it to his hard disk based portable player, only to find it doesn't work being informed he needs to buy the film again in an online store to download it to his player. < <
You couldn't do that with DVD either, when it came out. As we speak, better BD drives are reaching the market. It's just a matter of time before you're able to do it. Again, Mr. Smith and you are stuck in the present when you should be thinking about the future.
> > 3) John Public buys a first, second, heck even third generation Blu-ray player, only to find it won't play any new Blu-ray films any more because the specifications have changed. < <
Again, this is misinformation. I bought an early model PS3 and it has played everything. Now, a new company, BluFocus, has formed to assist movie studios with quality control checks on their Blu-ray releases. This will help ensure that each title plays on each model of player going forward. But the few problems in the road are really minor.
> > In short, we get screwed, being stuck with an inferior format. < <
You and Mr. Smith are certainly welcome to avoid Blu-ray and keep buying HD DVD, but don't tell me that decision is based on empirical evidence. AFAIC, it's based on complete lunacy on both your parts.
> > Some film companies of course love this. Disney love the copy protection, < <
All companies selling digital content--including your beloved microsoft--love copy protection. It's not just Disney fer chrissake. And if you think Universal and Paramount don't care about copy protection, you've been sniffing too much liquid paper.
> > Fox loves the region locking < <
Again, all movie distribution companies like region coding because it gives them some modicum of control over their releases.
> > and Sony love releasing products whose specifications aren't finalised, < <
We live in a digital age where the power of processing and the size of hard drives improves by a factor of two about every 17 months. In this environment of change, you can't build a static technology without cheating consumers out of future benefits that may be just around the corner. The fact is that Sony has done a pretty good job of straddling that fence with the PS3 and Blu-ray. Much better than MS and Toshiba, which want to lock us in to a format that already is outdated and lacks the capacity of its competition.
> > so you can buy a new product to do the exact same job a few years down the line. < <
I bet the PS3 and most Blu-ray players will be the shiznit for the next decade.
> > They work in their best interests (or at least what they think are their best interests), which obviously are not the same as ours which is not to be unexpected, that's capitalism for you. < <
Oh boy, there's some "empirical" evidence, eh auph? A socialist buddy for ya. This is really funny.
> > However not everybody looks at the format war rationally and thinks, which format would better serve us? < <
Uh, how 'bout the one with 20 gigs greater capacity? Where is homey factoring that in to his analysis?
> > Some go on their brand loyalties, the Blu-boys are largely made up of PlayStation fanboys, and people who hate Microsoft (ignoring the point that Microsoft technology is in both formats), and then yes there are people who for some strange reason are actually a fanboy of an optical disc format, of how a 12cm piece of plastic is put together. < <
Well, we all have our biases, but homey is not acknowledging his own. He's an MS fanboy to the bone. And in that last sentence, he indicates that optical formats are not important at all, which is exactly the wrong attitude for those of us who do want an HD film library on optical disc.
> > By fanboy I mean a person who scourers the internet looking for anybody of a descenting opinion and showers them in abuse, or posts comments on however their little pet technology is awesome and everything else is "teh sux". < <
Spacecadet, heal thyself.
> > There's something these people need to remember, they're partly responsible for why Bob Public wasted his hard earned money only to find his film won't play on his player, or why Joe Public can't rip the film to his portable player, why John Public's Blu-ray player doesn't work with new discs and of course why all of them and Bill Public ends up paying far more money to either work around these problems, or pay for the additional costs of Blu-ray. < <
Someone needs to remind Mr. Smith that Blu-ray has achieved very small market penetration. Joe Public, for whom homey is so quick to speak, hasn't even dipped his toe into this format war. And won't, precisely because there is no clear upgrade path yet.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
... I turned that information over to the petition website's Administrator and requested the removal of the comment and bogus signature from that list.
BTW, if you're the fanboy who did this (and my suspicions are usually well founded), it isn't the best way to recruit allies to your cause, IMHO. Trust me, most folks don't respect those who'd forge other folks names or monikers to petitions, even if it is an on-line petition and you thought it was a funny joke at the time.
AuPh
isp number thingy of the forger then do a cross check here.
But if you want to waste your time checking into it, go ahead.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
It would never occur to me in a million years to do such a thing, so by all means, dedicate your life to hunting down and prosecuting whoever did it.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
...if only because it requires a modicum of cleverness and guile, but then I recalled King George's regime and how even the most simple minded individual can change the rules to conduct uncivilized acts if there is sufficient malevolent motivation behind it. Upon consideration it seems entirely within the realm of possibility that someone of your *ahem* unique "intellect" might be capable of such an act, but taking responsibility is up to the conscience of whoever is man enough (or cheerleader enough) to admit it.
> > > "by all means, dedicate your life to hunting down and prosecuting whoever did it." < < <
I'm sure that you'd like that, especially given your "non-denial denial", but I won't waste my time pursuing the person responsible beyond notifying those sponsoring the petition. FWIW, I'm not interested in making this into a Federal case, but the culprit is obviously someone who knows this board quite well and probably posts here regularly. Note: Very few folks around here are motivated enough (by a passion for Blu-ray or hatred of HD-DVD and it's supporters) to cross that particular line; that narrows the field of 'usual suspects' considerably.
AuPh
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