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In Reply to: RE: not the latest dtsMA or Dolby TRue HD, the 1082 posted by Kal Rubinson on February 09, 2008 at 17:33:46
"Better for the manufacturers to have a bigger mark-up on fewer items."
Denon has 13 (thirteen!) 7.1 channel Home Theater receivers listed on their Receivers page. Why the hell can't they put out one moderately priced surround preamp/processor? Surely the $1200 AVR-2808's seven internal 110wpc amps are worth 400 "marked-up" dollars, so that $800 example seems about right. If you want a separate (non-receiver) surround preamp/processor from Denon, it'll cost you $7k for their AVP-A1HDCI.
The rediculous part is that they don't offer preamp outputs until you get to the 4 highest priced models (the ones with the most amp output wattage for crying out loud!), coincidently one of which you would need to buy in order to get DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD advanced audio decoding. If they are putting preamp outputs on a receiver, they must intend for the buyer to use them. But if the buyer intended to use the preamp outputs, they more than likely had no use for the receiver's amps in the first place! That's an evil strategy and that kind of shit needs to stop.
I'm not singling out Denon, either: Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony, etc get the same grade of "F" as well when it comes to this topic. They all need to stop dicking the consumers and show some sense of restraint re: their greed.
Follow Ups:
This year they are comming out wiyh the first pre-pro in years, probably in the 2.5 to 3k range. This is the first year have seen anything less than 5k from anyone.
Based on the success of the Integra maybe we will see more. If there is a market somebody will fill it. I myself think that if you go to cheap it is kind of like putting 300hsp in a Chevy Cobalt. You can still get all the gadgets and go 140mph but how will it handle and how many would they actually sell.
If it's a Chevy, it'll handle like crap -- regardless of the engine that's put in it. But electronics aren't cars, so they pretty much just sit there (something Chevys should be able to "handle").
At $1200, the Denon AVR-2808 is a nice receiver. Looking at the non-amplifier specs of that model, I'd say it's on reasonably solid ground with the majority of A/V enthusiasts. As a matter of fact, aside from some minor differences and looking at it from an audio quality/spec perspective, it pretty much holds its own against its higher priced brothers. How many will they sell? Probably in the high hundreds to -- maybe -- a few thousand, mainly due to the fact that if you want Denon gear, you have to have this receiver at a minimum to get (1) DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD decoding and (2) preamp outputs. The bottom line is that Denon wants a minimum of $1200 for advanced audio decoding and preamp outputs; consequently, the rest is just additional "stuff" (value added material, if you will).
To make my point, taking the above into consideration and if you didn't need the amplifier section, what model is the more likely choice based on this
... then I would get the cheapest one. I guess you have to decide if any of the extra cost goes into anything else of value to you.
You are looking at it from logical but particular point of view. I suspect that the market research indicates that there is profit to be optimized with such an array of AVRs but that there is so little market for a low-priced pre/pro that they do not bother. I do not have those numbers but the manufacturers probably do.
BTW, how many years did it take for Denon to market and pre/pro and, now that they are doing it, how much does it cost? I take that to indicate what they see as a profitable effort. All that despite our crying need for a low cost pre/pro with all the bells and whistles.
Kal
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