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I'm sure my searching skills are deficient so if this is a redundant cry for help I apologize.
My current 36" Sony CRT is beginning to fade. I honestly don't know what I've been holding out for but regardless of what may be on the horizon I think it's time for a new display.
Our main TV gets a great deal of use the room gets moderately shaded light from behind in the daylight hours. I live in a suburb of the San Francisco Bay Area and I currently subscribe to Comcast. We have three Sony TV's and I plan on replacing two.
So far I'm interested in another XBR or the Pioneer KURO/Elite. It's seems simply absurd to walk into a store and compare and the reviews are somewhat helpful but for some reason I'm not seeing what the reviewers are seeing.
Another issue for the bedroom display is size. The slim bezeled Toshiba 46RF350U would just fit a space behind our closets sliding doors. I no idea of the quality of the Toshiba.
I'd like to hear any opinions on these brands and I'm wide open to alternate suggestions.
Vic
Follow Ups:
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I also recommend the Panasonic plasmas. When I was shopping last summer, the Panasonic plasmas were all top rated, going by all the info I could find on the net. It finally came down to the Pioneer or the Panasonic. We calibrated both at the dealer using a calibration disk, and the differences were very slight between the two. Since the Panasonic was some $4000 cheaper than the Pioneer, I couldnt see paying the difference. The Panasonic is great, and I havent regretted the decision at all. Our family room is quite bright during the day, but the Panasonic has no trouble with the light levels. A very bright, vivid picture. Make sure you adjust the display for best image quality. Just google the part number for calibration, or setup, info, and you should have no trouble finding the proper calibration settings. At most dealers, they are just displayed as they come out of the box, which will not be optimum. Wait until you put on a DVD. Even SD DVDs are incredable on the 50" plasma. You would think you are watching HD (at least from 15' away).
I returned to a nearby Best Buy owned Magnolia store for another look. Both the Pioneer and Panasonic displays seemed adjusted for more color compared to the Sony's who's color seemed much more accurate. Since I wasn't actually buying I didn't want to bother them to adjust the color. I find it very difficult to judge performance in any store. Did you bring the calibration disk wit you? If so which one?
On the subject of motion blur I noticed that looking at the displays about 10" to 12" the effect is easy to see. I was wondering if anybody else has noticed this or if it's even the effect I'm seeing?
Vic
Sorry, I dont remember which disk it was now. It was the stores copy. I did the comparison at a upper end HT dealer (Custom Audio and Video). I dont know if you could get anybody at BB or CC to do the calibration, or if they would even know how to do it. I find most salespeople at the big box stores to be rather clueless. If you get real close to a big screen display, you can see various artifacts, but at typical viewing distances, you dont notice them. I think it is part of the displays processing, upscaling SD images, etc, or possibly the severe compression used by some transmission sources (cable or dish). I notice it more at the big box retailers, and hardly ever at home. I think most dealers just set up the displays as they come out of the box, which is always too vivid, bright, etc. They are trying to 'grab' the customer passing by. No matter what display you end up with, its worth setting it up properly. You can often find the setup information by googling for it. Many sites that review displays often list the proper settings, from thier setup and calibration disks.
It took a long time to find something I could watch after my Sony 36" XBR. Finally the SXRD came out and picked one up. Most mfg have left the rear projection market now.
My opinion is that plasma has the best picture now. Pioneer has the best pic and Panasonic is the best selling. Picked up a Hitachi 42" director series plasma for the backroom and it embarasses the SXRD. Avsforum can be of great assistance with particular models and config.
Good luck in your search...
Cheers
> > So far I'm interested in another XBR or the Pioneer KURO/Elite < <
The Sonys ain't what they used to be. The Sony LCDs are made by S-LCD in Korea, which is a joint venture between Samsung and Sony. The ideal outcome of this JV would have been that Samsung's quality was brought up, but what actually transpired is that it furthered Sony's slide down.
I'm not a Sony-basher - I own quite a few Sony products, including a recently purchased Sony FP, but I would not buy a Sony television.
The Kuro plasmas are nice, but they are soon to be orphaned. Pioneer will be buying Panasonic plasma panels going forward. Although Pioneer may uprate the electronics on the Pioneer-branded sets, the Panasonics are already very good. Given the short market lifespan of digital televisions, it's probably better to save the money and just get a Panasonic.
Speaking of which - I've done a lot of comparisons, and my opinion is that plasma is the way to go in large flat panels. LCD can be quite nice on smaller sets. We have a 32" Toshiba LCD in a second home, and it produces a pleasing picture; however, I've found that when you go larger, the inherent limitations of LCD become more visible.
LCD has made big strides in black level and motion artifacts, but it's still nowhere near plasma (which has yet to reach CRT quality in these areas). A big LCD set clearly shows that the "blacks" are really gray (albeit dark gray), and you still can see some blurring on fast motion, even on the really expensive sets. To me, SD signals look absolutely horrid on an LCD. At this point I would not consider going larger than 32" (maybe 37") on an LCD television.
I guess this is a long-winded way of saying: buy a Panasonic plasma.
helping a local guy pick out a new set and suggesting that if he can find room for a 42 inch set, to go with the Panasonic plasma. But I'm delighted with the 32 inch Panasonic LCD in my exercise room and have noticed no artifacts of the type others describe, The blacks seem very black on axis, to charcoal gray way off axis. Meanwhile, I've always been very happy with the CRT projection display on my Sony in the den, and run a Panasonic AE100U 720p LCD projector in my "main" projection room.
Interestingly, I haven't seen any Panasonic LCD sets bigger than 32 inches in the stores, only 26- and 32-inch models. And then everything in panasonic 42 inches and above becomes Plasma. I think if you want a 37 incher you are forced into other brands.
My Panasonic LCD is made in their plant in Mexico, and I suspect the Plasma panels might be as well.
D
You mentioned "SD signals" standard definition signals? Do the plasmas do a better job on typical standard programing than LCD's? Will this still be an issue when the digital mandate takes effect?
Vic
Yes, SD = standard definition. I find SD signals to be more watchable on our plasma TV than on other digital TVs we own. If I have to watch an analog-source channel, and I have a choice, I head for the room that's got my Loewe Aconda CRT direct view TV. It's still the best I've seen in this area.
This will still be an issue when the the "digital mandate" takes effect. The mandate is nothing more than a requirement for analog broadcasters to switch to digital broadcasting. It doesn't force anyone to change anything else in the signal chain, so production facilities that are still using analog video devices can continue to do so.
For comparison purposes - I believe you mentioned you have Comcast cable service. I'm assuming you have their "digital" service. What they do now with analog SD signals is convert them to digital, squeeze the crap out of them to minimize bandwidth, then send them down the wire. Same with digital satellite service. This is and will be the same with digital OTA broadcasting.
It's going to be a long, long time before everything converts to an all-digital chain. Even longer before everything goes HD. Many of us here will not be alive to see it.
Be sure to look at the Panasonic Plasmas in the 42-50 inch sizes. They weigh less than some of the plasmas, and I think have a blow you away picture with the 720p version all but indistinguishable from the 1080p version. That great consumer testing magazine agrees with me that they are a superior product and that the 720p and 1080p versions are both outstanding.
Plus there are very good deals out there on them relative to Sony and Pioneer I think.
I'm not sure what you were intending on spending, but I think you can find a 50 inch Panasonic Plasma on sale at around $1500, perhaps less, and I have a local ad this AM for the 42 inch 720p version at $1000. I think you would be hard pressed to beat those prices. I also think you are going to have a tough time beating the Panasonic plasma picture quality at any price.
To me 1080p only makes sense if you see yourself building a Blu Ray library and then really only in the 50+ inch sizes..
David, Thanks, thats some good information. I'm planing on a +50 display and another display that fits a 44"x28" space. It would be nice to save some shekels on the smaller unit.
I'm interested in hearing peoples preferences regarding Plasma and LCD in hopes that I might be able to see what people like about either format. Currently, walking into a store the LCD's seem extremely vivid compared to the plasma's. I concerned I'm being fooled by exaggerated setups and questioning my own preferences. For example, OK the LCD's have the potential for all this brightness and contrast in the showroom but will I be comfortable living with that presentation compared to the plasma in the long run.
Anybody switched from one format to the other? Thanks.
Vic
Plasma tends to reflect more light from ambient sources.
The plusses on plasma are
1. darkest blacks, highest contrast
2. Best picture quality in fully darkened theater-type space
3. Widest viewing angle
The plusses on LCD are
1. brighter and better picture quality in rooms where there is ambient light
2 less reflectiions
3. lighter weight for a given size
True flat panel LCD's have been improving rapidly both in terms of contrast and viewing angle. non-projection LCD appears to be increasing in popularity relative to plasma. But plasmas are now nearly equal in terms of brightness and probably equal in expected life, too. The projection LCD and projection DLP units seem to be losing out, in part because of depth but mainly because of bulb life in the 2-3000 hour range
I think the expected life of a flat panel LCD vs plasma right now is a wash, and price is a wash. I've heard expected lives of 50,000-70,000 hours on both. Price is a wash. To me the question mainly boils down as to how much ambient light you have in the room.
The Panasonic plasma units I've seen in the store recently seem very bright, almost indistinguishable from the LCD panels.
Unit I would replace my 2004 Sony 46 inch CRT-based flat panel if it fails: No question in my mind but the 50-inch Panasonic plasma--the sheer quality of the picture blows me away even tho the Sony CRT based unit I have is no slouch in that department either. BUT my room has very moderate ambient light.
D
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