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In Reply to: RE: 5.1 digital posted by Ben Van Dyk on June 06, 2008 at 21:31:10
5.1 is ok for movies but not for musically orientated DVDs in our system. It is not the echo or reverb I object to but the relatively thin audio due to compression.
So, I always set audio output to stereo and bypass the external processor sending the L/R stereo direct to amps and speakers. BUT I take another audio out from the preamp and feed it back to the processor for synthesised ambiance. This way I have full control over volume in the side & rears and can choose the appropriate DSP setting for the music.
Yes it does introduce added complications but, using a programmable HTM remote and a few other bits and pieces, is easily controlled. You can see detail of this somewhat ridiculous system in the flow sheets in the AA gallery.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Follow Ups:
hi John,Ive been reading the asylum posts for over 5 years.
so Ive read a lot of posts.
I thought people would think I was crazy,because my 5.1 is hooked up different.I looked at your link,& mine is hooked up kinda like yours,but in smaller room.
the crazy part is I have 17 speakers in one room.I need to buy I more center channel.10 are floor speakers.with 2 subs.Most was used from ebay.I installed the 5.1 about A week ago.I had all the extra speakers & amp for years.I had the 7.1 with pre outs to kyocera amps to feed the extra speakers.
I wanted to a/b the 5.1 &7.1 so I used zone 2 from 7.1 to 5.1 cd input,&5.1 preout to tape input.it works.the 2 kyo amps feed 6 of the speakers,but it dont get turned on much.
I ve been using the new oppo 980 thanks to the asylum.The thing I like the best is I get stereo in the rears with either surround amp.My room is so small that the rears are only 1 foot from my head. theres 2 on each side.2 are rears on 7,1& the other 2 are fronts on the 5.1
the sound is different & better.I have dvd audio universal players for both amps.I have not a/b them.
Interesting to read you have dropped on to a similar set up Ben. I first started experimenting with surround from 2CH with a Audio Pulse One years ago with L/R analog out from vinyl. This "progressed" to an Audio Pulse model 2 and then to a Fosgate 2 which was highly praised in TAS.
I stuck with the Fosgate for a long time until dipping my toes into digital. After some relatively crummy digital processors (it was a long learning curve) I "invested" (that term alleviates the conscience better) in a Meridian 861 which had a number of interesting options. But I could not perform the same trick of leaving L/R alone & feeding more back for surround effects with digital without another DAC. This was satisfied with a Benchmark DAC1 which has been extensively modded by Steve Nugent. Along this road vinyl was abandoned much to the chagrin of some inmates here.
But being the obsessive audio/video nut I must confess to, this has since been changed again with the internal DAC of the Esoteric universal player timer controlled by the G-0s Masterclock. This gives rather nice L/R fed direct to amps from the preamp with synthethised surround via the Meridian. This is just about as far as I can go until weakening to blu ray. Groan, that means yet another player in the system!!
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
As David says below, the advanced audio codecs on Blu-ray may very well change the way you think about multi-channel concerts. All channels are lossless (either 5.1 PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD) and contain more detail than the lossy codecs on DVD. Because of the high transfer rate capability and space on Blu-ray, 5.1 channels of 24/96 PCM can be had along with 1920x1080 resolution for the video (check out Chris Botti's concert BD).
If multi-channel music is not your thing (it's not mine), there's often a stereo PCM track to accompany the 5.1 track. And even on the BDs that don't include a stereo PCM track, the 5.1 track can be down-mixed to stereo and still deliver an audio presentation that beats the audio on nearly every concert DVD.
music video or concerts in 5.1 is what I like the best.I was wondering if the blue ray player can play these regular discs.I saw on ebay lots of blue ray concert discs.I need to study up on the blue ray player.is the hdmi the only way you get the high res audio.I can use the audio if it has digital outputs.
The advanced audio codecs (DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD) either have to be decoded in the player and output as analog or PCM via HDMI or sent as bitstream via HDMI to a receiver that can decode them. They cannot be sent (full resolution) via coax/optical. The same goes for multi-channel PCM -- it won't fit over coax/optical.
Blu-ray players also play DVDs and all but 2, the first Sony and first Pioneer, play CDs.
Below is a link to a player comparison chart (that needs to be updated, as a few more players have come out) which should help out:
You may find that problem disappears with Blu-ray concert discs, or at least is significantly reduced. One thing that listening to movie soundtracks in uncompressed 5.1 LPCM or the new lossless compression Dolby and DTS formats has impressed me with is how full and rich the soundtrack sounds, and how thin the standard DVD 5.1 soundtracks sound in comparison. Both you and Ben are saying that you don't find 5.1 movie soundtracks thin but I can tell you that they actually do sound thin in comparison to those 3 new high definition audio formats.
I suspect your reservations about surround sound for concert discs will certainly diminish if not disappear with Blu-ray given my experience with movie soundtracks.
David Aiken
I guess with DVD movies the concentration is much more on the video (the story & action) than with music orientated genre -> 5.1 is ok for them.
It will be interesting to see just how much opera, ballet etc is released on blu ray. If the format does take off and catch the imagination of the public so they switch to HD, then, if it follows the pattern set by DVD, that music material will follow in significant amounts in a couple of years time.
In the meantime I'm happy with some scaled up SD material that is of good quality to start with. But that is the catch because much of the present releases is a rehash of what was previously on VHS and was recorded in the 1980's or early 1990s and is only of mediocre quality. But as with similar audio recordings, there are some gems there of fantastic artistry which makes mediocre picture quality tolerable. HD will do nothing to help these.
So, I'm holding off blu ray until the end of this year at the earlies and might wait even longer.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
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