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In Reply to: RE: interesting blu audio poll posted by Joe Murphy Jr on May 19, 2009 at 16:20:26
I'm much more PO'd about the excessive abuse of DNR and EE. Funny how people can be obsessed with sound, but let the studios slide when they *intentionally* degrade the picture with DNR and/or EE on a video format.
They are really screwing up alot of catalog titles, which is the main reason I adopted BD.
Jack
Follow Ups:
No, people aren't "letting them get away with it". The problem is, that just as the majority of people (not necessarily BD users) couldn't care less about lossless audio, the majority want their BDs' video to look like modern animation: no grain. And others want their hi-def home video to look even more like film, so that the grain structure looks even finer. I'm sure you're aware of this conflict of opinions. There is no excuse for EE with a hi-def transfer.There is no doubt there's a lot of crap video transfers on BD. It's just a medium, they can put anything at all on it. And they are...
I'm kind of surprised somebody in an audio forum wouldn't be all over the audio aspect though. This is also pretty divisive. Many insist there is no audible difference between lossless DTS-HD MA and the full-bitrate lossy core. I couldn't really tell the diff the few times I tried, maybe if I tried really hard...but I can do lossless, so why wouldn't I. Funny thing is, the 1.5Mbps DTS (lossy) used to be sometimes used on DVDs years ago. So now we've got it back on BD for those who can't do lossless. Totally different when it comes to Dolby TrueHD though, which doesn't have a lossy core, so they have to add a separate (often hidden) lossy track. And use more disc space for that.
And using up "unavailable" disc space is the excuse WB used for not including lossless audio on BD, at the same time they were being pilloried for some of their BD releases' atrociously DNR'ed video (several months ago). Maybe if they had used DTS they would have had enough disc space for lossless, but they won't use DTS. The lack of disc space argument didn't hold water regardless, and they insulted a lot of people by using it. A simple "we goofed" would have maintained more respect. They had a lot of respect in the DVD community for their treatment of catalog titles.
Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention that *some* studios say they have to remove grain because encoding grain uses up "excessive" disc space, you know, capturing all that fine grain detail.
Edits: 05/20/09
> > > he majority want their BDs' video to look like modern animation: no grain. < < <
That is unfortunate, if not pathetic. It shows a serious lack of understanding of film.
> > > There is no excuse for EE with a hi-def transfer. < < <
Agreed. The problem is, that both DNR and EE have to be added to the picture-its an active act, not passive.
My only gripe with DTS-HD MA, is that many if not most players do not decode it internally (streaming doesn't count).
Dolby True-HD is OK, if they don't use Dialnorm.
The lack of disc space is mostly BS. One of the points of BD, was the high disc space could handle anything they wanted. How many movies actually use all or almost all of their disc space?
I get the distinct impression that most studios just don't care.
Jack
they don't use Dialnorm."
That's one of the problems with the codec: except for Sony Pictures, nearly every other studio uses Dialog Normalization. Actually, it's probably unintentional as the Dialog Normalization numbers are nearly always -27dB, the default setting, for movies from studios using Dolby's encoders. If more audio engineers really paid attention to this, we'd see more variances. Most people who have a problem with Dolby TrueHD would "forgive 'n forget" if Dolby would just come clean and say "Hey, we fucked up. Severely. From now on our encoder will default to lossless, instead of lossy, and we're going to reconfigure current in-use decoders, for free, for the studios using them. We're even going to lock the encoders at Wrnr Brs to Dialog Normalization OFF/-31dB."
The other problem is that studios using Dolby TrueHD are more likely to stick to 5.1 audio, whereas studios using DTS-HD Master Audio show more support for 7.1 soundtracks.
> > > whereas studios using DTS-HD Master Audio show more support for 7.1 soundtracks. < < <
Great.
*IF* only they would show more support for a DNR/EE free picture.
Jack
I agree with you 100%.
While the animation movies produced nowadays look totally awesome, I have a feeling that this "no noise, no artifacts, no grain, etc" has had an ill affect on non-animation movies. People expect, unknowingly, all movies to be computer-derived perfect. It's a shame that movie studios are doing the opposite of what should be done -- educate. They could even include an option in the disc's menu to show the buyer, via a scene from the movie, what the actual digitized film looks like (no processing whatsoever: grain, dirt, specs, artifacts, etc), what it looks like when properly processed and what it looks like when the majority of the grain and fine detail are stripped away, leaving the viewer with a presentation very much not like the director intended.
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