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In Reply to: RE: Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player in-depth review ? posted by AbeCollins on June 27, 2009 at 22:28:31
This is the part I have trouble with:* PAL/NTSC Conversion - The BDP-83 supports NTSC and PAL systems for both disc playback and video output. It can also convert content of one system for output in another. (Subject to DVD and BD region restrictions.)
_To those familiar with Oppo's earlier models they might assume that this unit was Region and/or Zone free (even with the nifty little caveat in parenthesis). If folks want a one-box solution, this isn't going to be the unit that they were expecting. Heck, I would've purchased one if Oppo had simply included their usual Region unlocking capability for standard DVD, forget BD Zone, but my rack already has a Panny BD player, a Samsung HD-DVD player and an Oppo 983 for standard DVD with region unlocking. I would've liked to pull the Panasonic and Oppo DVD player move them to a second system (or sell on-line) and replace it with one unit, but I just can't justify the additional cost without the region flexibility.
BTW, those who already own an Oppo DVD player probably already have most of Oppo's quality audio functions, so aside from BD performance it seems a bit redundant unless the BD side offers something more than other BD players currently offered on the U.S. market.
While Oppo probably has the best playback within it's price range it does not offer what I personally believe it's main consumer base expects from the company (absolute flexibility with discs from around the world). Now this has been covered ad nauseum in other threads and I don't want to take Oppo to task again for the apparent betrayal of their long time supporters (Oppo's choice to abide by BD Consortium's strict licensing rules rather than to supply players from an off-shore address to skirt the Draconian regulations, as Momitsu has done), but this is a deal breaker for a lot of folks. Most A/V enthusiasts want performance and flexibility in a one-box solution; this unit falls well short of that, IMO.
AuPh
Edits: 06/29/09Follow Ups:
It states quite clearly that it is subject the DVD region encoding restrictions.
The Oppo plays all the formats it claims to play. It says nothing about being region-free. Regional encoding is not a format, it's a feature created for the benefit of the greedy movie companies which is extremely difficult to implement on a Blu-ray player. Ask Oppo. They will explain why. They don't omit this feature to piss people off.
There are plenty of people with PAL-encoded, region-free discs. These are the discs Oppo are referring to. If you have a DVD burnt on a PAL DVD recorder, you are okay with the Oppo. DVD recorders don't typically regionally encode the discs they are recording onto. So your Uncle Floppynob in Denmark can send you footage of their family get-together.
Oppo don't fall short on their claims about the BDP-83 at all.
If you want to playback discs from other regions, stick with their older models.
No offense, but I could not disagree more with your assertion; OPPO stating a caveat in parenthesis is like fine print in a weight loss ad (results not typical).
> > > "It states quite clearly that it is subject the DVD region encoding restrictions." < < <
But that caveat follows this: "PAL/NTSC Conversion - The BDP-83 supports NTSC and PAL systems for both disc playback and video output. It can also convert content of one system for output in another." FYI, all domestically produced players are theoretically restricted to region, but it is well known that OPPO's earlier players all have special menu applied codes that unlock other regions; so, it would be a logical assumption that this unit would have that access as well.
> > > "Regional encoding is not a format, it's a feature created for the benefit of the greedy movie companies which is extremely difficult to implement on a Blu-ray player. Ask Oppo. They will explain why. They don't omit this feature to piss people off." < < <
We can agree on this, and of course Oppo didn't omit this feature just to piss folks off; I never said they did. What I did say is that they made a deal with the devil (so to speak), to obtain U.S. licensing for a BD player that they could distribute from inside the U.S.
If they had gone down the same road as the Momitsu, distributing from overseas, they would've held onto their long time supporters (of which I consider myself one). I realize that Oppo produces high quality products (I own 3 of their players, and would have upgraded to their BD player too had it been truly universal!).
Instead, OPPO decided to play by the BD Cartel's rules which not only limited them by Zone, but forced them to give up their traditional region unlocking for DVD. As I said below, that was the deal breaker for me.
> > > "There are plenty of people with PAL-encoded, region-free discs. These are the discs Oppo are referring to. If you have a DVD burnt on a PAL DVD recorder, you are okay with the Oppo. DVD recorders don't typically regionally encode the discs they are recording onto. So your Uncle Floppynob in Denmark can send you footage of their family get-together." < < <
Sorry, I don't have an Uncle Floppynob in Denmark or anywhere else that I am aware (if that's his name I'm glad it wasn't passed down! -grin), but I do own a lot of PAL discs from Europe; in fact, 30-40% of my viewing is European fare. I don't burn discs, period. Also, I have a rack full of players, including a Samsung HD-DVD player and a Panasonic Blu-Ray and an OPPO DV-983H that handles my A/V requirements (Region free DVD; SACD/CD/DVD-A). What I needed from Oppo was a one box solution that would allow me to remove my Panasonic and OPPO DV-983H to a second system. The new player falls well short of the solution I require.
> > > "Oppo don't fall short on their claims about the BDP-83 at all." < < <
I'm not saying that they don't live up to claims, but as I pointed out earlier, their spec-sheet is a bit deceptive on the issue of PAL/NTSC compatibility and could easily misinform those familiar with their earlier DVD players, by use or reputation.
> > > "If you want to playback discs from other regions, stick with their older models." < < <
I've done that; it doesn't alleviate my rack-space problems.
The bottom line: I'm sure that this is a wonderful player and I hope folks are enjoying it, but OPPO has lost me as a customer, ...at least until they can offer a product which responds to my needs as a consumer.
AuPh
While I appreciate your concerns about the BDP-83 not being Region / Zone free as a past owner might expect from Oppo, I'm new to Oppo and my needs are different.
I'm mainly looking for a "Universal" BD player that also has excellent audio quality for CDs and SACDs. I know of only one other BD player that can handle SACD and that would be the $4500 unit from Denon. There may be others that I'm not aware of but for $499 I'm willing to give Oppo a try.... or some others in this price range if any others exist.
I just wish that they would've been a little more up front because there may be a lot of return customers with expectations based on earlier players.
AuPh
They said long before it came out that it would not be region free. The fact that it will convert PAL to NTSC just means it will play all region 0 discs. The real odd part is that I was told that you need a video screen to set it up, which would mean that it won't go into audio only systems for the SACD.
Jack
> > The real odd part is that I was told that you need a video screen to set it up, which would mean that it won't go into audio only systems for the SACD. < <
There are very few universal players that DON'T need a video screen for setup.
There are quite a few universal players that must have video screen for any operation more advanced than Play, Stop, or Track Advance (such as repeat, playlist, etc.).
A good rule of thumb is that if the player has video outputs it needs a video screen to be properly set up, even if the ultimate purpose is audio-only.
> > > "They said long before it came out that it would not be region free." < < <
That is true, but OPPO is selling players to a larger market than just the folks who frequent this forum and the AVS forum. OPPO made their name and reputation selling high-quality region free players. I'll wager that a lot of folks considering the purchase of OPPO's new BD player will not be aware that this player is permanently region and zone locked from reading that disclaimer. I suspect that the average consumer will see it as a contradictory message because earlier players weren't universal as shipped, but easily hackable from the remote menu.
Unfortunately, the unwary might be prone to think the same thing would be true of this model; the disclaimer does not address this point.
> > > "The fact that it will convert PAL to NTSC just means it will play all region 0 discs." < < <
True, but like I was saying, you and I are readily aware of what this actually means because we've followed the heated debates during OPPO's beta testing. We've read the reports about the compromises OPPO made to receive licensing from the BD Consortium (Cartel) during the BDP-83 players development and we're (hopefully) savvy to the complexity of region coding issues.
But we're a small sector of the market that OPPO would like to reach with this player and I expect that there will be a lot of folks who've heard about OPPO's DVD players having region unlocking capability who will still be mislead by the conversion disclaimer.
> > > "The real odd part is that I was told that you need a video screen to set it up, which would mean that it won't go into audio only systems for the SACD." < < <
Yeah, that does seem like an complication/oversight if they are really want to emphasize the audio side of this player
Your quote from the manual is quite clear to me about the feature they included on the machine.
Doug
OPPO seems to be saying that the BDP-83 will convert PAL to NTSC and vice versa, but in parenthesis there is a caveat or rather vague disclaimer that is contradictory. Folks who've purchased earlier OPPO players are well aware that they are officially region specific, but that there's a simple work around code you can enter through the remote menu to unlock other regions.What OPPO should've done is make a very CLEAR distinction that unlike prior players offered by the company that this player is totally Region LOCKED and does not have a work around to play material from other regions with the possible exception of Region 0 (open). Heck, I would've had it on the side of the box and prominently displayed in the advertising like a Surgeon General's Warning! ;O)
Seriously Doug, you may be looking at this from the perspective of someone who has a bit more experience with what specifications mean than the average consumer. I think folks are drawn to specific features that they want or need and base their decisions on what to buy based on a company's reputation, testimonials and whatever specifications are listed. OPPO's management might've been better off not mentioning the PAL/NTSC conversion as a feature if these players are region locked because it will confuse those who haven't kept up with this controversy (especially folks who are aware of OPPOs long standing tradition of offering 'unofficial' region unlocking).
Sadly, I think that this misleading specification may have been intentional because OPPO must be concerned about the potential lost business to the new Momitsu player, which is all region and all zone playable and cheaper to boot. In fairness to Oppo, I don't think that they wanted to give the DVD region unlocking function up, but they made a deal with the devil in order to obtain U.S. licensing. Nevertheless, it was a deal breaker for me.
AuPh
Edits: 07/01/09 07/01/09
Understand. Their ad wording might be a little misleading as you described.
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