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Many inmates here seem to be keen early adopters, hence the lively discussion of new players as - or even before - they appear.But aren't the days of the polycarbonate disc very obviously numbered, i.e. in the face of downloads, and wouldn't those of the public who care about higher resolution be better advised, vested interests aside, to keep their wallets in their pockets for the time being?
Devices like Panasonic's latest HDD Blu-ray recorders with (in the UK) built-in Freesat tuners certainly make us itchy but should we scratch? Sure, the recording facilities will retain their utility, but isn't the long-term future of the Blu-ray disc format itself very questionable?
Edits: 08/13/09 08/13/09Follow Ups:
It's not hard to find used DVDs for $3 or less. I suspect the movie industry would be quite happy if the secondhand market went away. Music industry weasels tried to ban the sale of used CDs, after all.
If you enjoy higher quality audio and video, it makes sense. Simple as that. Downloads are not about quality. If that changes, I'll be surprised.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
I buy Blu-Rays -AND- I download. High Def downloads are excellent and much better than DVD.
I've been downloading rental HD movies to my TiVO from Netflix and Amazon and the quality is excellent.
I'll typically rent average movies and never buy them and just buy the great ones upfront w/o wasting money on the rental. In any case, downloaded HD flicks are pretty sharp these days.
Do you get DTS MA in the HD downloads or something lesser on the audio?
I can't answer your question about the audio as I am set up for 2-channel only at this time. But HD downloaded picture quality is excellent in my opinion. Maybe not as good as an actual Blu-Ray disc (I haven't honestly compared) but the HD download is clearly better than straight DVD or upsampled.
Apparently the files can be rather large but I wait about 5 minutes then start playing. The download seems to keep up or I download earlier in the day for showing in the evening.
and I've heard the downloads are often worse than broadcasts, with more artefacts and pixellation.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
NT
Some of the shows on HDNET like.. Bikini Destinations, Deadline and Get Out are shot in 720p but it looks like Art Mann Presents is shot in 1080p but its still not as good as Blu-Ray!
Are you watching your HD "broadcast" direct over the air or via a satellite or cable company feed?
Regardless, if my downloaded and rented content is better than DVD, which it is by a large margin, then I'm happy. ;-)
All my TV viewing (now HDTV viewing) is over the air. Many shows do look excellent.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Downloads are great for rentals, because there's never any hassles about damaged media, out-of-stock items, or late fees.
But downloaded content is generally encrypted and DRM-protected, and if the remote DRM server goes down, you are locked out of your movies.
I have an AppleTV and it's great. But even so, there was one weekend where their DRM server was offline, and there was nothing I could do. The movie was already on my hard drive, but I was locked out. Their customer service made things right--on Monday.
But when it comes to actually BUYING a movie, I feel safer with Blu-Ray, because as far as I know, they can't actually be "revoked".
Just out of curiosity, how long does it take you to download a movie, and is it DVD quality or Blu-Ray quality video? Thanks.
On 7 mb/s Qwest DSL, HD downloads take anywhere from maybe 1 to 5 hours. They say you can actually start watching much sooner, sometimes after just a few minutes. But I've never actually done that. Sometimes I download things days or weeks before actually viewing them. Apple gives you 30 days to watch it, and once you start playing it, you have 24 hours to finish.
They've done a pretty good job with the compression, so that maybe it looks a bit smoother than a Blu-Ray would, rather than edgy or overprocessed.
I don't have a full surround sound system yet, so I can only comment on the R, R and C channels but there too, pretty nice, perhaps more on par with DVD soundtracks than TrueHD: Smoother, less dynamic than good 24/96K audio.
Sound matters also and a large part of the enjoyment of BD for me is the increase in sound quality also, and that also contributes to download size.
David Aiken
Blu-Ray discs are listed as 50 Gb capacity. Consider how long it takes you now to download a 10 Mb program upgrade, and remember that 1 Gb is 100 times bigger, hence will take 100 times longer. Even assuming that a Blu-Ray disc is not completely full, how long does it take you to download, say 35 Gb? How many movies do you want to store, and how long would it take to download them? How large is your movie hard drive?
Edits: 08/13/09
So then the next thing comes along and maybe you shouldn't even do the next thing, because maybe some sort of 3D presentation will be offered. And maybe after that.... If we all waited we'd still be playing VHS tapes and 8-tracks in our cars.
The players are cheap enough now that it makes sense for me to buy one (I did), and I was also sort of against it (mainly due to the HD/BD war however, once that was over I dove in). And I'm not really a huge videophile for that matter. But there is a noticeable difference. Huge visual difference to my eyes?, no. It all depends on the movie, some look absolutely fantastic in SD DVD. But it is a definite step forward.
I will get into video games when they become like in the movie Lawnmower Man, I had decided when I saw that movie years ago. I'm still waiting for that, but not in this lifetime I guess. So I don't play video games yet.
On the other hand, I watch a lot of movies by renting and having them delivered by mail. I too only watch once w/ very rare exceptions (A Clockwork Orange).
My motivation for BlueRay was that DVDs rarely and no longer seemed to have the sound in dts.
For me, getting the Oppo player paid off not only for DTS MA movie sound, but also much better (SA)CD sound than my Philips. (I am not generally an early adopter of anything, preferring to wait for maturity. I waited about 10 years for CDs (or players) to sound decent.) Picture difference was less and and don't care nearly as much about that either. I felt somewhat ripped off watching movies on DVD in DD and seeing dts on the end credits (DVD producers were not including the higher quality sound tracks).
In a sense, I am voting for better sound quality by buying the player and renting the BD movies.
I think that's what makes the situation significantly different this time. Plus physically transported plastic discs are much more resource-intensive, certainly relative to downloads. And, besides, they already seem so last century.
I totally understand people who have already built up Blu-ray collections forking out on the latest shiny box, but anyone else ... ?
High def movies are large files so big downloads and slow download times with most connections. Can current networks handle a major increase in such file downloads? How many current networks have the speed to make such downloads easy?
Even if networks in the developed world could handle this sort of traffic, much of the world doesn't have such networks and won't have it for a long time. Sure it will come somewhere first and spread but the net has been around for decades and there are still large parts of the world where the majority of people don't have web access, much less computers.
Physical discs will be around for a while yet and when downloads start to be a viable option there are going to be people asking the question you're now asking about BD. How long after downloads equivalent to BD quality or better are available will it be before physical discs are phased out. DVDs are still being released even though BD is widely available. Hell, LPs are still being released.
Nothing happens overnight and I somehow think that more people aren't going to jump from DVD to downloads without an intervening step than will jump without the intervening step. Sure, the horizon is approaching but I think that approach is slower than you think and what are you going to do in the meantime?
It's your choice. Putting your faith in a fast approach to your horizon Is one option. The other is to assume the horizon is approaching slowly or simply decide to enjoy what is currently available and go to BD. There's always something new coming and at some stage you either decide to go with the newest technology that is currently available or you end up sticking with old technology and wait until a new one arrives that you like. That may mean skipping one generation, or two, or three or whatever.
The choice is yours. I suspect those who have jumped, including me, think it's worth it and those who haven't will include a lot who don't think it's worth it. The only opinion that really matters for you is yours. Whatever you opt to do I suspect you can find enough kindred souls to allow you to count yourself in good company.
David Aiken
It cost me $70. I then upgraded my Netflix account to BluRay for $2 a month. I can't imagine a cheaper way to enjoy the technology. I don't buy DVDs and and I don't plan to by BluRay discs.
-Wendell
I have bought some dvds -- just ones I thought I would watch repeatedly. Turns out that I barely watch most and I am more likely to watch the show on tv than on dvd. I don't know if there is some defective human gene that won't allow me to enjoy my dvd collection. (there are a few that I watch several times -- especially Band of Brothers which is brilliant and very watchable).
When I got my Laserdisc player I started collecting but found, after a year or so, that I never played most of them more than once. Eventually, I gave away the player and the collection.
So, when I got a DVD player and, more recently, BluRay, I only rent movies. Music, opera, ballet is a different story.
Kal
Someday, either here, Audiogon, or Stereophile, would you provide a list of the Blu-ray opera discs you own or recommend? I'd value your recommendation as a guide for my own acquisitions.
db
to put it into the column but something always seems to squeeze it out. Since the column is only bimonthly, it is hard to defer the equipment but, mebbe, I will bump the SACDs for BluRay next time around.
Kal
But when LD was the big thing I knew DVD was coming along so I waited it out. Not when it came to a nice small disc however, I paid out huge money (to me) for my first DVD player. Discs don't seem last century to me, but then I'm old (45) and like something in my hands. I grew up with a TT and big black shiny records. The thought of having a PC in my room is hard to fathom for me, as is downloading a movie. I guess one can rent via your cable supplier, yes? HD available for that?
I'm old school I guess. When I want to watch a movie I drive to Blockbuster and look at the shelves. I own a total of maybe 25 (SD only) movies, so I'm not the BD collection (or any movie format collection ever in my life) kinda guy. I'm not at all a buyer, as once I've seen a movie I rarely watch it again (heck, I only rent about once every 2-4 weeks).
Still, I do see your point, trust me. Particularly for those who live on a PC. Personally I get paid to sit at one all day long. I have emails to answer when I get home, some mild surfing and I'm done as far as PC's are concerned. Will I eventually have one in my room?, maybe, who knows.
Well, I'm 53 and I love 'legacy' formats like 78s, LPs, reel-to-reel and cassettes as much as the next man or woman, mainly because I've accumulated the different types of software and they're kind of a record of my life and the years before.
But I find it weird to have this new format marketed 'at' me whilst commonsense tells me it's almost a legacy format already. Some of the low prices (like Wendell's player, above) certainly make it tempting but I really don't want yet another box to dust (or, rather, not dust) if I can help it.
And surely PC technology can only integrate better into the home in the near future? I, too, like the tactile and visual aspects of handling a physical medium but I suspect such pleasures will be priced out of the market by the combination of electronic transactions and near-instant gratification that downloads provide.
Or am I getting ahead of myself?
I want to see the movies I love in teh highest resolution possible, in the best format for sound and image.
I want to play them when I want to play them. No muss or fuss.
I don't buy many movies anymore, DVD or BD. I collect mostly foreign, art, classic, rare, indie, ballet, eepra, music, dance. These are things are very rare or beloved favorites I will watch many times. if it's readilt available from Netflic, and I like it but am not passionate about it, I don't buy it.
However, I can assure you that The Searchers frex, is a far superior experience via BD on the HDTV than it is on standard DVD. I have some DVDs that I doubt will ever be on BD. So it's cool to have a machine that converts well. But if I love it, I want to see it in the best possible format. It'll be a while before BD is surpassed on my display.
There's just an awful lot I like to watch not available for download.
I just can't imagine waiting for a new format because of the sake of a couple hundred dollars (or less), and thus not fully enjoying my system right now. Will I buy into a PC based format in the future, if that's the way the world turns I guess so. Personally I have no problem driving to the video store and don't really need the instant access.
Are you right about BD being obsolete before it hits mass popularity, perhaps yes. But I think my purchase was worth it for me (important) regardless. Trust me, I'm not saying your message is not right, just it's not for me (yet?). :)
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