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In Reply to: RE: Partly because they've redefined "burn-in" posted by cfraser on October 11, 2009 at 16:25:58
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Audio Asylum's own little "Village Idiot" - jrus
Follow Ups:
Never seen an LCD have image rentention. Probably after its been on the same fixed screen for several months none stop. It's several hours for a plasma.
It typically takes a day or so for image retention to occur on an LCD. Remedy is the same as for CRT or plasma.
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Audio Asylum's own little "Village Idiot" - jrus
Please fill me in on what LCD does this? You fellows must be confusing a rear projection LCD with a Flat panel LCD. Mine has never had image retention.... I mean zero. There's nothing in the menu to even correct for such an issue.The only panels I've seen with screen washers are plasmas not LCDs.Find me a manufacture's owner's manual that even warns of such issues. I can't find it any where in the ones I've looked in. So I'm lost on where you fellows are finding this info. I'm sure they would include this in the manual, if they include it in the manual for their plasma counterparts.
In fact check out Samsung Plasmas and LCD manuals. Panasonic as well.
One of the first statements you'll see under the plasma manuals is a warning about image retention. This isn't any where in the LCD or LED counterpart manuals.OK..I did some more research and came across a Mitsubishi manual stating image persistence not retention. Because of the liquid crystal always changing state due to electrical charges. This phenomenon isn't permanent as it can be with a Plasma. Even this is said to be extremely rare.
Edits: 10/13/09 10/13/09 10/13/09
I'm not confused at all. Perhaps you are.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Image-Sticking-in-LCD-TVs&id=556063
http://workstations.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=25497
http://www.elotouch.com/Support/TechnicalSupport/pixels_image.asp
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Audio Asylum's own little "Village Idiot" - jrus
I found some info just before you posted your links on image persistence. This is not the same as image retention. Which is not permanent, it is extremely rare for this to be permanent in an LCD.I've used and abuse my LCD for 16 months now. Icons,start menus you name it on the screen everyday. There is no such issue. Try this with any plasma..any. You'll have Icons all over your screen when you're watching a movie. lol
I found one Mitsubishi manual stating this as well. Strange as I've never seen this with any of the ones I've seen installed in customers homes, not on Sony's either.
No confusion here my friend.
This is where as much as you guys hate to admit, LCDS/LEDs have the upper hand. They are more user friendly in these area. If Plasmas matched them in this area maybe we would have seen plasma screens in offices..not the case however.
Edits: 10/13/09 10/13/09 10/13/09 10/13/09 10/13/09
First of all, who are the "you guys" in, "This is where as much as you guys hate to admit...?"
I don't think I fall into that group, whatever it is. Perhaps you fall into the "you hate to admit you were wrong" group.
I specifically mentioned that LCDs suffer from image retention. That is all I mentioned. You challenged that. I provided backup documentation. Even though you obviously had no clue about the issue of image retention in LCD panels, you are continuing to claim that I was wrong and you were right all along. That's pathetic.
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Audio Asylum's own little "Village Idiot" - jrus
It is image persistence moron, not image retention. I stated I found one manual mentioning this, though it looks to be several years old. I'm around LCD screens daily, never have I seen the pixels stick on any of them. And yes several have static images all day at least 6 days of the week. I have a CRT monitor here with burn-in as well as a Plasma. The CRTs are even worse with this. I'll state again IMAGE PERSISTENCE and IMAGE RETENTION aren't the same thing. One is permanent one is not.Your header! "LCDs also suffer from image retention"
It is as you're trying to insinuate one is as significant as the other..not true. Images don't burn into an LCD screen.When I say you guys, I'm talking you and Murphy. Go find me some up to date manufactures manuals that have warnings of image persistence in LCDs.
Pathetic is some one who allows himself to believe a fading technology is cutting edge. There are a reasons plasma's are fading, cost is only one of the factors.
The manufactures plainly state this in the manuals as warnings, but some still think it is a thing of the past..that's pathetic.
Edits: 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09
You are too uncouth and ignorant to be worth any more of my time.
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Audio Asylum's own little "Village Idiot" - jrus
Yup same to you buddy. LMAO
FYI: racerguy and I don't agree on too many subjects. However, on plasma vs LCD, I think we both read from the same page. That said, he'd probably prefer you not group the two of us together. Just so you know why he was "offended" at your remarks.
Cost: plasma manufacturing costs are still below LCD costs. So why have many manufacturers exited the plasma business? More profit in LCD due to the markups (not only do you have to make them, you have to sell them to third parties who want to make money). It really is a $ issue.
Misinformation and disinformation: years of incorrect spoutings by untrained, ignorant and downright stupid retail employees has had a delirious affect on plasma acceptance. Same goes for the online comunity. There's probably a 1:20 ratio (if not worse) of informed: uninformed pro-LCD users when it comes to the plasma vs LCD debate. You can blame the disinformation on the misinformed parties and the retailers. Too many unscrupulous retailers out there along with the ones that just want to make a buck to the ones who are forced, by upper management, to make a buck. How do they do it? Make the LCD sale -- by any means or tactics necessary. I've seen it and I've heard it. You don't know how many times I've wanted to yell "You lie!" and reach over the aisle and smack the shit out of a Best Buy employee for outright lying to a customer seeking information about plasmas.
Myths: so much bullshit in the stores and online, mountains made out of molehills, etc. It amounts to a smear compaign if you really want to get down to it. Think about the following for more than a second. How many decades did we have just Direct View CRT (what plasma technology is based on) and the world was a happy place to be? Then, all of a sudden (the last 6 or so years), that technology and its successor is bad bad bad? Gimme a fucking break!
Now, LCD is clearly the technology to get if there is certain criteria that is important to you or needed under certain circumstances. Anyone not willing to admit that isn't too bright or is a fanboy -- simple as that. However, the climate in this dabate is way off the mark mainly due to the issues stated above.
On the image retention and image persitence issue, I have only seen one LCD have a problem with ghost images remaining on the screen. That doesn't mean there aren't thousands more, but my eyes have only seen one. That's pretty damn good based on my experiences.
Agree Mr.Murphy,Sorry to offend you or racer dude(moron). As I stated earlier before I got in this debate. I still like my plasma. I do understand its limitations and its uses. It still has a good picture even with the image retention.
If they made them more PC friendly I would own another.From talking to a few buddies who've been in retail for 20 plus years. The companies pushing Plasmas at the beginning of their release lost shit loads of money. Only one out of every 10 or so produced made it to the stores before it was damaged from vibration. This may have helped kill them before they were accepted across the board. This is no longer a problem, but the damage was already done.
Edits: 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09 10/14/09
Not in the least. On the contrary, you have been rather polite compared to some around here.
I've seen several reports of LCD screens suffering from what is called brown-in. It's probably from having the contrast and/or backlight cranked up to the max. The whites end up with a tannish tinge.
I can't recall ever seeing this myself. I surmise that it could be the actually aging of the display material more than burning in. Plastic does seem to have this issue as it ages. I would think it is not a problem for the LCD-LEDs using the hard glossy screens verses the matte.
I know one of the reports was from someone who had his LCD for a little over a year. Not exactly an "aged" item. And from what I remember, areas of the screen started to tinge tan/brown -- not retain an image. What I don't remember is what he used the display for (gaming, computing, movies, etc) and what the manufacturer said about this. I know of others who said they had similar experiences, but I really had no interest in the details. These were not LED LCD versions, but then again they have not been on the market for very long.
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