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In Reply to: RE: You'd buy it and I wouldn't posted by Jazz Inmate on December 29, 2009 at 22:36:21
... they're still great players.
BTW, it would be interesting to learn how many BD players you own, being that you like to convey the impression that I only have HD-DVD players hooked-up in my AV systems. Note: You should have quite a collection by now and a lot of folks around here might be at least a little curious given your strong advocacy of the format.
>>> "It doesn't have so much to do with politics as insipid writing, sophomoric direction and the other points I made in my initial reply." <<<
Sorry Jazz, but your own words seem to refute that claim. The prevarication comes from your continued refusal to admit that the politics of Avatar weighed very heavily in your dismissal of the film. Furthermore, in your own words you declared a predisposition towards disliking Cameron's movie months ago.
>>> "Though, yes I do find the politics of Avatar to have been telegraphed rather badly, adversely impacting the film." <<<
You are still being disingenuous, even with this understated acknowledgement that you didn't care for the political theme.
>>> "I'm very rarely wrong about these things and I just don't see 3D taking off--not in movie theaters and not in home video. Every few years there is another push for it, but aside from sensationalist hype little comes of it." <<<
Not to beat a dead horse, but you've been wrong about a lot of things, both here and over on the Outside board; no one is counting, but this would just be one more thing in a very long dirty laundry list.
Here is one more clue: The debate over BD was never one of right or wrong, but rather of initial hardware and disc cost and whether BD regulations would be flexible enough so that film collectors would be able to acquire DVD & BD titles from other regions and zones. Fortunately, the latter issue has been resolved, even if it isn't to your liking. Let's not get into the area of overzealous BD advocacy again, that ground has been covered ad infinitum.
While 3D probably won't be suitable for every new release, I predict with some confidence that it will take off for nature documentaries, horror, SF & fantasy, animation & major action films and will be the next big attraction for the HT market (provided the economy recovers enough to generate next generation HT sales).
However, I'm merely a fan of this new immersive cinematic technology, not an overzealous advocate cheerleading the charge and pushing one HD product over something else. That is not my department, but please, be my guest.
>>> "But you always were a sucker for sensationalism, weren'tcha auph?" <<<
Did you learn chutzpah from being a Faux News junky or what? ;O)
FYI, I like Avatar because of it's ground-breaking effects, immersive otherworldly detail and cautionary theme grounded in our own history. While I think it was a bit heavy handed (with stereotypical characters and dialogue) and may be faulted for a somewhat predictable story, it still transcended it's apparent weaknesses, culminating in a highly entertaining filmgoing experience.
Cheers,
AuPh
Follow Ups:
> > .. they're still great players. < <
So what? they're obsolete and no new content is available to play on them. More relevantly, you advocated up and down this forum for the adoption of HD DVD even after the format was lying dead on a slab. You ignored repeated attempts to explain to you why Blu-ray was superior. So it's difficult to take any of your A/V "advice" seriously.
> > BTW, it would be interesting to learn how many BD players you own, < <
I don't see what's so interesting about that, but I currently own one Blu-ray player--the PS3, the same one I've owned for almost three years now. I did just decide to get an Oppo SE and mod it to optimize two-channel performance for CD/SACD and use it as my primary disc machine. The PS3 would be mostly retired at that point.
> > being that you like to convey the impression that I only have HD-DVD players hooked-up in my AV systems. < <
you did until you were forced by the death of HD DVD to adopt Blu-ray or be left out of the HD experience moving forward.
> > Note: You should have quite a collection by now and a lot of folks around here might be at least a little curious given your strong advocacy of the format. < <
Just because you wrongly suspected me of being a Sony employee or something like that doesn't mean anyone else is as stupid. Most A/V enthusiasms quickly recognized the advantages of Blu-ray and I was one of them.
> > Sorry Jazz, but your own words seem to refute that claim. The prevarication comes from your continued refusal to admit that the politics of Avatar weighed very heavily in your dismissal of the film. < <
No, I pointed out how bad the writing and acting were. On Outside, I focused on politics because that's what we focus on there. But there are more serious problems with the film.
> > Furthermore, in your own words you declared a predisposition towards disliking Cameron's movie months ago. < <
Yes, because he can't write yet insists on heavily rewriting most screenplays that come his way. He also sucks as a director for all but the action sequences, but so does another of your favorite directors, Peter jackson.
> > Here is one more clue: The debate over BD was never one of right or wrong, but rather of initial hardware and disc cost and whether BD regulations would be flexible enough so that film collectors would be able to acquire DVD & BD titles from other regions and zones. < <
No, it had to do much with audio capabilities and whether there was enough room on the lower-capacity HD DVD discs for high resolution audio Codecs. There wasn't. Being that this is primarily an audio board, I was floored that you and some others declared that you simply didn't care about better audio or high bitrate capacity. My main motivation for backing Blu-ray was its increased capacity--the only specification that mattered if you're interested in quality.
> > Fortunately, the latter issue has been resolved, even if it isn't to your liking. < <
of course it's to my liking--your inferior format died and my superior format won.
> > Let's not get into the area of overzealous BD advocacy again, that ground has been covered ad infinitum. < <
You should be embarrassed for being wrong and for being such a prick about it, not just for the duration of the format war but up until this very day.
> > While 3D probably won't be suitable for every new release, I predict with some confidence that it will take off for nature documentaries, horror, SF & fantasy, animation & major action films and will be the next big attraction for the HT market (provided the economy recovers enough to generate next generation HT sales). < <
That depends what your definition of "take off" is. A couple studios will dabble in it, but nothing more.
> > FYI, I like Avatar because of it's ground-breaking effects, immersive otherworldly detail and cautionary theme grounded in our own history. < <
Far out.
-------------
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
> > > "So what? they're obsolete and no new content is available to play on them." < < <
They are still great players and I have a lot of inexpensive HD-DVD discs that either aren't available yet on BD or would use the same transfer and therefor be redundant. Also these are still great DVD upscaling players. AFAIC, they were a good investment. Of course, everyone's mileage varies except your's, but then again, you're on a treadmill in a cage of your own making.
> > > "More relevantly, you advocated up and down this forum for the adoption of HD DVD even after the format was lying dead on a slab." < < <
Have you ever analyzed Freud's theories and correlated them to your wooden nose?
My "advocacy" was primarily limited to a criticism of the BD cartel, excuse me, consortium, for imposing zone access limitations and also holding Oppo hostage by disallowing their standard all region access for DVDs as a condition for licensing their new BD players (making a "one box" solution all but impossible). I also favored HD-DVD as a less expensive format for both hardware and discs that would be more likely to entice a wide audience to high definition programming. In light of last years global economic upheaval my original perspective may have had greater merit than you'll ever publicly admit.
> > > "I currently own one Blu-ray player--the PS3, the same one I've owned for almost three years now. I did just decide to get an Oppo SE and mod it to optimize two-channel performance for CD/SACD and use it as my primary disc machine. The PS3 would be mostly retired at that point." < < <
I already have BD players for main system and guest room. Both are Oppo BDP-83 players, my primary system has the SE. Both are modified for multi-region multi-zone play and work marvelously well. BTW, if you have a modicum of DIY skill even you'll be able modify a BDP-83 SE for multi-region/zone play for under $100.
Oh, and BTW, I'd hold onto that PS3 so you can gear up for 3D when the urge to upgrade finally hits you! ;O)
> > > "you did until you were forced by the death of HD DVD to adopt Blu-ray or be left out of the HD experience moving forward." < < <
I didn't get serious about BD until word came down that modifications would be forthcoming that would allow Zone and Region free access. I started out with a relatively inexpensive Panasonic player that I recently gave to my brother (now replaced by Oppo players).
> > > "Just because you wrongly suspected me of being a Sony employee or something like that doesn't mean anyone else is as stupid." < < <
Actually, I never seriously thought you were an employee (toady, maybe, but never on the payroll). I'm sure that SONY has better personnel screening than that. ;O)
> > > "Most A/V enthusiasms quickly recognized the advantages of Blu-ray and I was one of them." < < <
Many movie fans/collectors recognized the disadvantages too. AFAIK, you have yet to convince anyone here of how the cartel's intent to limit zone access in any way advantages consumers. Food for thought.
> > > "No, I pointed out how bad the writing and acting were. --- But there are more serious problems with the film." < < <
Yeah, over 600 million of 'em world-wide to date! I'm sure that James Cameron will be just as concerned as I am with how wrong you think folks are who differ with your POV! ;^D
> > > "Yes, because he can't write yet insists on heavily rewriting most screenplays that come his way. He also sucks as a director for all but the action sequences, but so does another of your favorite directors, Peter jackson." < < <
Just think, if you had 1/100th of 1% of either of those talented gentleman's bank accounts you could easily afford a second BD player and have it properly zone & region modified to boot! ;^>
> > > "No, it had to do much with audio capabilities and whether there was enough room on the lower-capacity HD DVD discs for high resolution audio Codecs." < < <
That may have been your argument (and a rather lame one, IMO based on the similar transfer quality of discs coming out at the time), but my position was consistent and the only limited capacity issue that ever kept resurfacing from my perspective was your's.
> > > "Being that this is primarily an audio board, I was floored that you and some others declared that you simply didn't care about better audio or high bitrate capacity. My main motivation for backing Blu-ray was its increased capacity--the only specification that mattered if you're interested in quality." < < <
Capacity was never an issue because both formats would eventually be capable of multi-layer expansion that increased bitrate storage. The intent of the BD cartel, excuse me, consortium was always a more relevant issue for film fans/collectors. So, if you were floored by the logic of critics, you should've learned how to roll with the punches. Like I said, that issue has been resolved, not necessarily to your liking or that of the BD gestapo, but those of us who like the option of collecting foreign films on DVD & BD are happy.
> > > "of course it's to my liking--your inferior format died and my superior format won." < < <
Ummm, ...well, at least I'm glad that you're in bliss about it. ;0>
> > > "You should be embarrassed for being wrong and for being such a prick about it, not just for the duration of the format war but up until this very day." < < <
I guess that I could be embarrassed for you, but so far you haven't demonstrated to me that you deserve it.
FYI, everyone is wrong now and then, some more than others, but cluelessness is another matter altogether. When proven wrong I've stated as such and even apologized on occasion. The problem here is that you seem incapable of finding any fault with your own opinions even when it's painfully apparent to just about everyone that is more than one side to an issue. In those situations your POV is either biased or poorly informed. It is certainly your right to differ; I couldn't care less whether you choose to be a prick or even have one.
> > > "That depends what your definition of "take off" is. A couple studios will dabble in it, but nothing more." < < <
Nearly 2/3 of American multi-plex cinemas are now equipped with one or more 3D (DLP) screens; that's a pretty big "dabble" dude.
Care to make an unofficial wager? Don't worry, I won't hold you to it (I seem to recall a wager in last years Presidential election that went unresolved)! :O)
Cheers,
AuPh
I like both of my Toshiba models. I don't own a single HD-DVD disc. They are wonderful DVD players.
-Wendell
I'll never part with my HD DVD players. Built like tanks and my wonderful collection of HD DVD movies should last a lifetime. Plus, they only cost anywhere from $1.99 to $5.00. The format may be dead moving forward, but my discs will continue to play indefinitely.
Can't believe you're still pining for hd dvd. You not only bet on the wrong horse, but you can't admit you were wrong and are grasping at straws to convince yourself you are a wise man. Pathetic.My point is, you failed to understand why your preferred format was a failure and it doesn't instil much confidence in your predictions that 3D will gain traction. Do a simple survey among your friends and get a sense of how many of them want to buy all new video gear and wear glasses just to watch a few hyped up crappy shows. 3D is dead on arrival as a home video concept. It's too gimmicky. It's a higher quality gimmick than it was in the jaws III days, but it's a gimmick nonetheless.
As for this region coding you're hung up on, it's more a mandate of the studios. It therefore cuts across any format. If HD DVD had succeeded, it too would have necessitated a provision for region coding. Why? Because like it or not, different studios own the rights to certain titles in different regions and wish to protect their intellectual property. That's just a fact.
Face it, auph, you bet on the wrong horse and you bet against a superior format with more capacity. You stupidly advocated against higher bitrates and therefore against better quality. In your defense I think you were just one of hundreds of lemmings that forums like AVS run by biased management whipped up into an anti-BD frenzy. But the fact remains that not only did you back the wrong format; you did so in spite of inferior quality. This makes you a loser twice over. Not only did you fail to pick the winner but you failed in the endeavor for better audio and video which is what this hobby is all about.
If you want to bet that this 3D gimmick will take off, I'd be glad to oblige. We need to have some metric to agree upon so that the loser can't wiggle out of the bet. How about sales of 3D home video titles never achieve greater than 5% market share and 3D broadcasts air no more than 5% of all shows on the air. If by 2013 your 3D predictions fall shy of those numbers, you owe me $50. Deal?
-------------
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Edits: 12/31/09
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