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In Reply to: RE: for joe murphy jr about bd pcm posted by Ben Van Dyk on January 14, 2010 at 16:35:33
Lots of early BDs had PCM as the only lossless format. BDs do NOT have to have a DD/DTS lossless format, as very many don't have any lossless audio at all. Often you'll see regular DD with the lossless PCM.Yeah, like Rush: Snakes... BD only has 5.1 PCM as the "best" lossless format.
PCM is what's sent over HDMI if the player does the decoding because PCM is the lowest common denominator, ALL HDMI receivers will accept it. You should have to do nothing when you select a PCM disc track (or it's selected by default) since "nothing" has to be done by the player (i.e. no decoding).
Edits: 01/14/10Follow Ups:
Rush: Snakes and Arrows offers DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 and PCM 2.0 on the Blu-ray that I have. Perhaps they offered different audio options in other areas?
I just took a quick look through my music BDs looking for the first "PCM" one and mis-read the back...that Rush one is PCM Stereo, but 5.1 dts-HD MA.
A 2-channel PCM track and a DTS-HD Master Audio surround track.
You please three groups of people by doing it this way: those who prefer stereo for music -- the 2.0 PCM track, those who prefer lossless surround for music -- the DTS-HD Master Audio track -- and those who prefer surround, but can't decode the latest lossless codecs -- the DTS core.
Did you notice they re-did R30 on BD? Yeah, you probably did...The problem with very many DVD/BDs released by Canadian companies for the Canada market is they have errors on the package. Especially noticeable these days with BD, they quite often forget to mention DTS-HD MA at all. I don't know where my "Snakes..." was made, but it doesn't mention what kind of 5.1 it is on the package, not even a dts logo, I had to throw it in to check, but PCM is mentioned.
One criticism of Rush's music discs is that the bitrates are kind of low. Considering they are somewhat audio/video-philes... They're pretty standard rates for movie discs, but many people feel they should be higher for a "music" disc...
Edits: 01/15/10
Rush concert material may not be 96k, but at least it's 24-bit from what I've seen of the bitrates on my PS3 (not a big consolation, but at least they're not down-converting to 16-bit). Some of the problems stem from Alex -- he's in charge of that end of the band, as he tends to not give a "fan" perspective of the music. He also tends to mix hot (Vital Signs is a prime example of mixing/mastering gone awry -- plenty of clipping and clamping). I believe that recordings should always have input from the musicians. After all, it's their music. However, the actual setup and capture should be handed off to a professional recording engineer who really knows what he is doing and cares about achieving the best sound quality. Besides, musicians tend not to have the best hearing due to the loud music they're exposed to. Is that really who you want taking care of business before it goes to disc? Not!
As for the poor QC on the disc contents, I think that really sucks. Not just for Canada, but for everyone. How hard is it to get the correct info on the back? Seriously, steps have to be taken to do a better job with what could be the easiest step in the production of a disc release.
R30 on Blu-ray arrived from Amazon a few days ago. I can't watch it because it's part of a 3-disc birthday present from my wife (along with Blu-rays of Cliffhanger and Last Action Hero). Unfortunately, my birthday isn't for a few weeks. :-(
Hmmm, another LAH fan, not too many of those apparently. I quite like that movie, as a popcorn Arnie flick (to me, ALL Arnie flicks are comedies). Most of the earlier Schwarzenegger movies got really cheap BD transfers, but still better than the DVDs. The HTF review of LAH made it sound like it's a decent transfer. Cliffhanger sounds like a great transfer. Sony has been very reliable with their BDs IME...
Is the stereo audio on the R30 BD better quality than on the DVD (higher bitrate etc.), do you know yet? I much prefer the stereo track to the surround mix on that one (DVD), presume that would stay the same even if they redid the surround in DTS-HD MA...it's not the SQ I have a problem with, it's the mix. Also, I can put the stereo PCM track through my stereo/"analog" system so that helps too. Trying to decide if I "need" the R30 BD...
There are (I believe) at least 4 additional songs on the Blu-ray version. The R30 Blu-ray won't have a 2.0 PCM track (which sucks), only DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 and a 5.1 and 2.0 Dolby Digital track.
As for Last Action Hero, I thought the movie played to Arnold's strong points. And I liked it. Cliffhanger was probably Stallone's best movie. And I liked it. I already own R30 on DVD, Cliffhanger on LD and DVD and Last Action Hero on LD, so it's not like I've never seen the discs -- the wait for the Blu-rays is just going to be a bit longer for me.
thanks I did not know rush was done that way too.its on my wish list.so in order for these to playback in 5.1 or another lossless codecs it has to be hdmi or analog out.I wish the digital out was lossless.I do like the way it sounds but I really should use the analog outs on the player..I dont have an hdmi rec.I have 2 ht with mch inputs.
mch dvd-a mch sacd & blu-ray concerts rule.
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