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I bought a certain processor used a few months ago,and it has turned out to be a real nighmare. I prefer not to give the brand name now as I am still hopefull in having it fixed right.
Its been shiped to a repair shop twice, and each time it comes back with a different problem. All kind of software problems.In all my years of buying and selling equiptment I have never got such a lemon.I am thinking of just getting something else.
So my question for you guys are, which of these brands would you rate as the MOST trouble free. Krell, Lexicon, Rotel or Arcam. These are the ones I now have in mind.
I no more care about ease of use, or setup, or which sounds better. I just want it to work when I turn it on and not have to worry about what will work and what will not.
Thanks for any help.
AB.
Follow Ups:
I have two Denon AVRs going here and set one up for a friend and they do a very good job. From what I read, Onkyo are maybe even better.
It all depends how obsessive you want to be as to how well an AVR would satisfy you. The ultimate AVR is reputed to be the (rather expensive) Arcam AVR600 but even it would have deficiencies in Blu Ray Audio due to the high jitter generated (nanoseconds rather than picoseconds) in the HDMI link. An S/PDIF link would bypass that but might not get the full benefit of BD audio.
The AVRs process both audio and video and certainly make connectons less hassle free although setting them up optimally can be challenging.
And another downside of AVRs not often discussed is the heat they generate. This drove me nuttier than usual when setting up my friend's Denon as he had inadequate ventillation. The heat caused loss of settings and this problem was not solved until he placed it on top of a cupboard rather than in a shelf. If my setup here I have a bathroom fan with speed control blowing air across the AVR. Works fine although computer fans on top of the AVR would have been less expensive. Not sure they would have been as effective as the present fan expells the hot air right out into the room wheras computer fans would only move it vertically.
Apologies if I've gone OT.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Agree about the heat. My Denon AVR which I only use as a pre-pro (i.e. don't use the amps) is by far the hottest component in my system. It has adequate ventilation. It always feels much hotter than a 60" Pio plasma and 7 channels of outboard amps.
Onkyo sells their better AVRs without the amp sections as pre-pros, pretty much identical for that use. Some of their AVRs get incredibly hot.
Now, heat may be a bad thing as far as longevity. But, and I don't want to go even more OT, but a lot of SS gear sounds better to me the hotter it is...
I've had problems with my iScan VP50 PRO video processor because of heat and will have to put 2 quiet computer fans on top.
Also running very hot here are video recorders with hard drives for recording. Unfortunately the trend for sexy low profile cases mean ventillation is often not good with fans omitted to save money. I find it necessary to put feet underneath to increase natural circulation and more computer fans are most likely needed also.
Not sure all this heat is good for video items, particularly those with computer hard drives inside, but I understand your point about audio.
Yes it is a bit OT but still relevant and could be a reason for ABliss's processor difficulties.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Thanks for the tip, I never thought of a heat problem. I do have it elevated in a open rack, but maybe a fan would help.
AB.
My items are on open shelves also, but the heat some generate is too much for natural ventillation to handle.
Worth a shot at trying in your case anyway.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
An alternative to consider is a major brand AV receiver (Yamaha, Onkyo/Integra, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, etc.) that has preamp outputs. In your case, the receiver's built-in amplification won't be needed. But if any of your power amplifiers go on the blink you have back-ups available during the repair period.
I think the point of diminishing returns really starts to appear at the AV receiver vs dedicated pre/pro area. The better AV receivers are every bit as good as many of the separates. It also makes things simple and easy to use.
Baba-Booey to you all!
Yes, I have been considering that option. I have looked at the Cambridge 540r v3. I could get rid of my 3ch amp and simplify things.
Can't recommend anything in the "league" you seem to want. That's because I'm probably even more easily annoyed by deficient and restricted processing ability. So...you have to move "down" a league to get something that does the job, and whose firmware is kept up-to-date and bug-free.
Analog mostly? Can't really help. Anthem drove me crazy, and I like Anthem, but see above paragraph. Classe maybe? Now, if you're mostly using digital-output sources, then Integra is reasonable. Maybe the top Denon pre-pros, I don't know how good their analog input capability is if you need that. I like their design much better than the Integras, but you pay for it.
My point is, I have only found the big names acceptable in keeping up with processing capability. The "other" names that we love just do not usually have the resources to address it in timely ways. Yes, I really value reliability, I use my gear *a lot*, and I get unreasonably annoyed when something ain't right. "Stepping down" from what I really wanted in my system was the only way to keep my sanity, relatively speaking.
Denon's processing has always been very reliable and up to date, at least in my experience. I've owned several and many of my friends have followed suit based on what they've seen at my house.
OK, they are not in the same category as Classe, Krell, etc. but at this point it looks like you want a very good performing unit that works without hassle. Denon is part of a very large electronics conglomerate that has the resources for R+D and can act quickly when a problem develops.
Baba-Booey to you all!
Denon is not perfect, but they certainly do the job well enough. I would have said Marantz too (same company), but once I learned in practice the value of a half-decent Audyssey implementation, when I choose to use it, I could not choose their offerings in the same price range. At the time anyway, oughta check up what they're doing right now. I wish Integra would truly acknowledge their units are only good for digital sources, and design their boxes appropriately (see Denon). Look like late-70s/80s designs when all switching was analog. Who doesn't use a remote to do stuff 95% of the time with a pre-pro these days?The Denon pre-pro was ~$7k in Canada when I went shopping last time. Besides that I'd have to rearrange my house to fit it in :), that seemed a bit much. Now I know better, I would be very happy with it, based on that the cheap Denon substitute has acquitted itself so well. [I don't put analog signals into my digital pre-pro, so they don't matter to me.]
Edit: can you tell the cheapskate in me would really rather buy the Integra? It does the digital pre-pro job just fine. The design is just not to my taste, which is irrelevant to anybody else.
Edits: 02/01/10
I would suggest a solid look at the Integra 9.9 or the Onkyo 886 preamp-processor.
They are the same units with different cosmetics and there is a difference in price. You can buy the 886 from Onkyo dealers in Europe but in the US you have to get the Integra from an authorized Onkyo dealer; they don't offer the Onkyo versions of pre-processors to the dealers.
However, there are a few places in North America to get the 886 if you want to save a few $$.
As is they do very good jobs, and from the sounds of it you would be happy right there.
There are people who swear by the mods done by The Upgrade Company to the 886, making it able to compete and according to some, beat, anything on the market sonically.
I have long considered Onkyo/Integra. I was really hoping the 80.1 would have a more appropriate/modern design considering what it does. Also it bugs me a bit that some of the Onkyo models have features I want that the supposedly "higher" Integras don't. Onkyo/Integra cost MUCH more in Canada than in the U.S., and have just started to go mainstream here in the last year. I could buy in the U.S., but no warranty, and a warranty is another thing I have learned not to go without for these processors. I trust Denon's engineering a lot more than Onkyo's, so that's in my mind too.I am using a Denon 3808 AVR as a pre-pro. HDMI only. It has worked well, and I have been looking for a worthy replacement for 2 years. Not because I don't like it, just the opposite. I am sufficiently impressed by it that now I want "better", before I was a bit dubious about this whole HDMI thing but 2 years has more than convinced me.
What has me waffling on the Denon A1 is it's "old". I've been looking at it for ~2 years, so it ain't new anyway...I keeep thinking they'll replace it, not that it's really the slightest bit out of date, and prices will "plummet" (they usually have a big sale at the warehouse here, which isn't that far).
Anyway, for the OP, the point is to buy a pre-pro from somebody who has proven they can do it. Right now. And not from somebody who has a "name" from doing something else. And takes forever to get with it, by which time they're a few years and plenty of bugs behind again.
Edits: 02/02/10
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