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I will soon purchase a Panasonic 42 inch plasma tv. Use will be general TV viewing and net video streaming.
At a viewing distance of 10-12 feet from a 42 inch screen, will I be able to see a difference between Blue Ray content displayed at 1080p vs 720p ?
Thanks,
Ross
Follow Ups:
Personally I think 720p plasmas are ugly. The problem is not the limit on source resolution (720p can look superb even at much larger sizes), it's the fact that the display structure is visible...it's grainy, not smooth.
persoanlly, I don't think HD broadcast, which is limited to 720p or 1040i (which is just frame-doubled 540) looks good on a 1080p display on a 42in display. Your tv will need to downsample almost all of what you say will be your primary signals and the deinterlacing insnt very good on these low end models. Either stick with the 768 display or get a bigger screen. You need to think of what the poorest signal you are likely to watch is going to look like and use that as a guide. I don't feel like I am compromised with my 768 panny in any way, and compressed cable certainly looks a lot better than it would with a higher pixel display. If you have a Reon processor in your receiver, that could make a difference though, as it would take the place of a low end chip in the TV.
"HD broadcast, which is limited to 720p or 1040i (which is just frame-doubled 540)"
It's probably a typo, but there is no 1040i -- it's 1080i.
1080i is not "frame-doubled 540" for many reasons. First, you probably meant line-doubled 540, not frame-doubled because that in and of itself used in this context doesn't make any sense, and I'm guessing you meant 540p because there is no 540i. The word "frame" means an entire picture. Second, line-doubled 540 would actually be 1080p (with only half the real resolution of a true 1080p signal), not 1080i. What 1080i means is 540 lines for two "fields" or, sort of, half-frames (the odd lines are shown first, the even lines are shown second): two different points in time, fields, are put together to show one entire picture, a frame. Actually, it's a bit more involved than that, but there's no need for an explanation of the concepts behind deinterlacing here.
"Your tv will need to downsample almost all of what you say will be your primary signals and the deinterlacing insnt very good on these low end models."
What you are probably referring to is scaling. If he gets a 1080p display, there will be no scaling from 1080i cable or Blu-ray -- which will be either 1080p or 1080i. The only scaling application will come from feeding the display from a source which is less than 1080 lines. But a 720p display, and with plasma this is actually 768p, scaling would have to be applied to each and every signal that is sent to it because there are no native 768 line signals. With regard to deinterlacing, as plasmas are progressive displays (save for a few models which are no longer manufactured), all interlaced signals will be deinterlaced when fed to a plasma -- both 720/768p and 1080p resolution displays.
"You need to think of what the poorest signal you are likely to watch is going to look like and use that as a guide."
Why do people always look at such problems as the original poster posed with such a lack of foresight? Why is "good enough" touted as The Gold Standard? Shouldn't one want signals from their best source (he did mention Blu-ray) to look their best? With a 720p (768 line) plasma, every signal fed to it would involve a compromise of one kind or another.
thank you for correcting my technical mistakes. I should probably avoid posting after a certain amount of liquid ingestion.
Cheers!
To me, it seems that on the 42 inch 720p Panasonic plasmas, the pixilation close up is pretty obvious. Noticeably less so on the 1080p version. Maybe you wouldn't notice the difference at normal viewing levels but look at both pictures from a foot or two away and you will see a pretty obvious difference I think and why the 1080p is more expensive...
I've observed less visible difference between the two resolutions on LCD sets.
The set I am most amazed at is Vizio's 1080p Razor LED with built in wi fi. I have one of those in a small 22 inch size mainly as a computer monitor at work, and its a fine high Res monitor, but the hi def off-air picture is almost unbelievably clear and lifelike.
The Vizios come in larger sizes with the Razor LED technology. They are more expensive than the Panasonic plazma, tho places like Wal Mart stock them.
This will be our first flat screen TV; upgrading from a Sony 27in XBR. It will be connected to sd cable coax and local digital antenna. I do not have a HD cable box. I will also connect a computer for netflix and internet video streaming (Hulu and other sites).
Cost difference is about $100; not much in the great scheme of things.
TC-42PX24 from Costco @$449. 720p. Usual complement of HDMI and component inputs. It also has a VGA input which will greatly facilitate connection to the computer. Optical digital audio output for connection to the optical digital input of my HT receiver (Marantz SR-19).
TC-P42s2 or u2. ~$540 from several online sources. 1080p. HDMI and component inputs + optical audio out. No VGA input.
If I go with the 1080p model, I will also have to get a VGA-HDMI converter or a HDMI computer video card.
Unless we get another bigger tv, I do not forsee this one being used in another room or for another non TV use.
At 12-15ft viewing distance, will I be able to see a difference in resolution between a 720p and a 1080p display when viewing blue ray content ?
Thanks,
Ross
...I can see a difference at 12’ but as I have no idea about the quality and discernment of your vision I don’t know if you will be able to see the difference.
The 1080P certainly offers more versatility of uses.
Moving from a 27” screen to a 42” screen I am sure you will be happy with either BUT I think it is a no-brainer to buy the 1080P model.
Good luck.
Smile
Sox
"At 12-15ft viewing distance, will I be able to see a difference in resolution between a 720p and a 1080p display when viewing blue ray content ?"
Refer to the chart I linked to in my reply. The answer is there.
It doesn't matter where the source signal is coming from, whether you will see a difference between a 1080 p signal displayed on a 1080o screen and the same signal displayed on a 720p screen is simply a matter of distance. It shouldn't make a difference whether the 1080p signal is coming from Blu-ray, HD DVD, your computer or some other source.
On a 42" screen you might just be able to pick a difference in resolution between a 720p display and a 480p standard def display at 12' and you shouldn't be able to see a difference between a 720 p display and a standard def 480p display at 15'. You need to be viewing at around 6'-7' to start to see a difference in resolution between a 720p display and a 1080p display.
If you want to get a noticeable improvement in resolution over standard def from a 720p screen at 12'-15', you need a bigger screen than 42". If you want to get a noticeable benefit from a 1080p screen at that distance you'll need an even bigger screen again. That will be equally true regardless of the source of your signal.
David Aiken
Why, given the availability of a 1080p display, would you limit yourself to 720p? Can you predict what this display will be used for 6 months from now? Two years from now? It may end up in another room where the viewing distance is 6 - 8ft. Don't forget that Blu-ray movies are normally encoded as 1080p24 and Blu-ray concerts are normally 1080i60, therefore scaling artifacts vs a 720p display would not be there. What if this display sees duty as a computer monitor or an editing display for video or photography? The added resolution would be a benefit vs 720p. The only reason to go 720p is the lack of $. But if it is the lack of $, then save some more. In the meantime, prices will come down and when they meet your savings, buy your new display.
I agree with Joe. Though admittedly seeing the diff between 720p and 1080i/p at 12-15' with 42" will be almost impossible...even seeing the diff between 480p would be close.I'm sure I don't have to tell you how scaling will never come close to matching native resolution (1080p/i) from BD displayed at native resolution. At a close distance. But if your sources have already been manipulated (streaming) then it doesn't matter much. Also, keep in mind that sources (players) typically scale much better than any display, even "crappy" BD players vs very good displays.
I am kind of surprised that 720p 42" displays are still available. Probably won't be any left next year at this time. Any price diff between 720p and 1080p at this time in that size is purely marketing, there's no technical reason for it. I can see 720p in a 19" screen say, I mean you don't expect to see "much" with those...
Edits: 12/20/10
Probably not. See the page in the link for a chart showing the effect of viewing distance on ability to see a particular resolution.
David Aiken
Smaller plasmas are actually 768p. I've had one for 4 years. I feed it 1080p. I figure: if you have the player downscale to 720p, then the TV has to fill in some lines to make it 768p, then why not just feed it 1080p and let the TV downscale to 768p? I don't know if you can actually see the difference or not - I couldn't.
Doug
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