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I maintain separate 2 channel and AV systems, and have been playing around with a Cary Cinema 11a, replacing a Lexicon MC8. Much more transparent, and to use a trite term, musical.
Given that musicality is my priority and video processing a non-issue, are there any other particularly great sounding AV preamps out there?
The ideal would probably be a preamp that would sound as good as, and could replace my 2 channel preamp (Audio Research SP-14) but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Follow Ups:
...it's HDMI-challenged so I let an Oppo 83SE do all the video processing and DAC w/ 6 channel analog output to the Meitner. For DD/DTS decoding of the satellite disk signal, I use an even older Proceed AVP (which in turn feeds the Meitner). The Proceed is a far inferior preamp to the Meitner but i doubt I'd do much better with any HDMI-capable AV pre/pro I could afford.
I could use a better Blu-Ray player but not willing to spend the bucks (yet).
Bill
I'm a two channel, tube guy with a two channel video system. I started looking for a way to simplify video switching in my system. As it exists now, sometimes I need to use three remotes to switch both the video and audio. That's a pain. I started looking at a solid state preamp to do the video switching with the touch of only one remote. I was thinking solid state because with a young child in the house, our system is occasionally left on for a day or two at a time, and burning five NOS Mullards for days bugs me. I also wanted a preamp that had HDMI to work with my new HD TV. So, following is some of what I have found, not much of it is my opinion, but I thought I'd point you to some stuff.
There was an interesting and very extended thread at hometheatershack.com on the sound quality of av preamps, around 50 pages, though I don't remember the length of the thread nor its title as I write. I took a quick look today, but had trouble finding it again. The reviewer, I believe, works in an audio mixing environment and listened to literally dozens of preamps in his system looking for the best sounding surround sound preamp. His comments let me believe that his interests might be similar to mine, though I can't say for sure; he's certainly closer to my thinking than most of the other surround sound afficianados.
As a caveat, much of the posting on hometheatershack.com relates to features rather than sound. Many posters read specifications and parts of preamps and treat them as though they perform identically in different preamps; e.g. X preamp has audyssey and Y preamp does too, so they implement audyssey identically. Personally specs, features and components rarely are any indicator of sound quality.
Reading the original poster's comments is far more instructive than most of the replies to his thread, but it's worth reading through since the peanut gallery ask questions about his experience with various brands and in the process you can read his take on various surround brands. I don't know if I'd agree with the original poster's conclusions, but he thought the most "musical" and believable surround sound preamp was an older, discontinued Proceed AV2. He distinctly disavows the original Proceed AV. Personally, I'm not a fan of Proceed, but system synergy brings its own surprises, so I am withholding judgment. The impact of his thread, I think, is seen on audiogon because you'll see Proceed AV preamps languishing whereas AV2 preamps last a few days at most. And, his comments are all organized around sound quality rather than feature lists.
A friend and fellow reviewer at positive-feedback.com, Francisco Duran, had his entry level Marantz integrated modded by upgradecompany.com and it sounded terrific, not for the money, but simply terrific. Great pace (not something I usually care about), excellent rendering of timbre, detail and sounstaging, all in a solid state preamp. I've had a tube preamp (three different ones) for about 18 years and figured I'd always have to have a tube preamp to have a satisfying sound.
The modded Marantz, however, made me wonder whether tubes are a requirement for sound satisfaction. To experiment, I bought an Onkyo 885(b) on audiogon. Haven't received it yet, but am hopeful that it will sound pretty good based on some of the comments I've read. The newer Onkyo 5507, 5508 and a soon to come 5509 (?) are said to be better than the 885(b) or 886 (all are successor designs), though I'm not sure what "better" means to those writers. I bought the older 885(b) for $500 figuring the pain of a resale would be the lowest, if that became necessary. If I like the 885(b), I may buy a 5508 and have that modded, by the upgradecompany.com.
FWIW, Upgradecompany.com said they thought the equivalent Integra pre/processors (DTC 9.9 or DCH 80.1) are softer sounding at the frequency extremes and not as recommended.
Marantz makes a pre processor that is also highly regarded as sounding very good (musical), by other people. Some say it's more "musical" than the Onkyo, but they're twice the price on audiogon, so I didn't take the leap on that. I think the upgradecompany thinks the Onkyo is superior to the Marantz.
So, I'd hunt down that thread and use that writer's experiences to inform your own quest. That's my $0.02.
Good luck, if you're looking.
Larry
IIRC, the later Proceed AV units have digital capabilities, where as the PAV is only analog and requires a separate PDSD if you want digital. That might account for the difference in sales time on Audiogon. I replaced a PAV/PDSD with a Cary Cinema 11a in order to get HDMI, DSD, and surround with SACDs. I think the Cary sounds about as good, maybe a bit better, than the Proceed, but both are at a different level than, say, an Integra 80.1, a processor I found attractive for its many features but its audio quality didn't do it for me. The Proceed PAV/PDSD are now in my living room setup.
db
Thanks, Larry, I'll look it up.
Not sure the sonic considerations of video and audio people overlap as much as they should. Haven't met any video centric guys that care much about whether a system reproduced. say, piano solos as if you were in the room. More involved with big bass generally.... ;-)
Hmm. I posted last night, but my post is "gone." Hmmmm.
Well, I think your appraisal of most high end video people matches mine, which is to say they aren't attentive to a realistic rendering of music, from a subjective standpoint, and they're in love with bass. Probably too much bass is just enough. There were quite a few guys on avsforum who were seeking out 5Hz bass, flat to 120Hz. As an experiment? I can get that, but to think it matters for ten seconds of one film in twenty, it seems a silly pursuit. Then again . . . the whole high end thing is rather silly from a particular perspective.
Again, good luck in your search.
...and one of the most musical, in your Cary. You could do much worse than an all Cary HT system.
You could find a great preamp with a HT bypass to include in the mix (the Herrons have them, and there are many other top pres that have them).
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