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In Reply to: RE: 2 ch and 5 ch integration Pging Kal R posted by docw on November 09, 2012 at 14:47:25
Are you sure it's the 2213CI? Denon's site lists the 2113CI as the next model up from the 1913. If it is the 2113CI, you may or may not get what you want. The Zone 2 output may be the left and right channels (if so, it may be a fixed level and this could create other complications) or it may be a downmix (if so, it can't be used at all for what you want) -- Kal should know. Once you know the answer to this, see below.
If you are combining a 2-channel and multichannel system together, you really need a receiver with multichannel preamp outputs. This way, the multichannel receiver powers the "extra" channels and sends the right and left channels -- via the left and right channel preamp outputs -- to the 2-channel integrated amp.
From there, it gets a bit "up to the user" as there are several ways to use the integrated. You can plug the MC receiver's L/R outputs into the I's amp inputs (if it has removable jumpers) -- thus using the I solely as an amp -- or you can plug them into an unused input on the I -- which will mean that the I must have the volume control put at a certain level while used with the MC receiver, as this allows the MC receiver to control the overall volume. Another option is if the I has a Home Theater bypass input: this would basically bypass the I's volume control and allow the MC receiver to control the overall volume (L/R preamp outputs would plug into the I's bypass inputs).
In order of quality, if your two channel source is to be connected to the I: option 3, then 2. Option 1 moves all inputs to the MC receiver.
Follow Ups:
Thanks for your answers and help.
I have to research the Denon more, and find out which type of out put is there. Also, the Roksan doesn't have strict "home theater bypass" being older.
Copy of info below:
Denon 2113 ci
http://usa.denon.com/Assets/Images/Products/NewIncommandSeries/c26-AVR2113CI-2-l.jpg
Zone 2 or pre out (RCA# > > > where? One of the Line inputs on integrated amp?
Then pre out or tape out on my integrated to where on the Denon?
Or does it have to go back to the Denon at all?
.pdf manual of *Roksan integrated amp #back) again:
http://www.roksan.co.uk/pdfs/KIum3.pdf, scroll to page 4-5 of 11
The AVR-3311CI is listed on their site for $899. It has preamp outputs for all channels and puts out 125wpc, so this would work better for your situation.
The other receiver could be made to work. I used a similar setup years ago (it was a temporary setup), but you would really be putting up with a major inconvenience. It would get old very quickly.
My question is, do I understand the routing?
Denon Zone 2 or pre out > > > Line 1 or 2 input on my Roksan integrated amp? Kal R says fixed volume best w stepped volume control.
Then what? From where does one hook up the Roksan to where on the Denon?
Is it from pre out (2 available) to a similar Line input on the Denon?
I see what you're saying about more limited (one zone 2) pre out on the Denon 2313 CI. But, again, why the need to have pre out on every channel?
I am almost giving up and just switching wires back and forth at this point.
My installer/sound pro wants me to get an Onkyo 717. Does this work?
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR717-7-2-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B007JOO4YS/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1352847688&sr=1-1&keywords=onkyo+tx+717
This one has front pre out and Zone 2 and 3 line outs.
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page/c26-AVR2313CI-2-l.jpg
again, thanks for expertise like yours.
I might consider that new Denon higher model. However, why do I need preamp out in every channel?
How did you wire or configure your temp setup? (I want to learn, probably won't do it).
this is what I did. I used the front & rear pre out to 2 different amps on cd input. works fine. I usually only use the pre out amps remote for volume.I dont always turn it on. Its for more speakers and volume.I dont like how most 5.1 disc are recorded so I always play 2 mch amps at the same time.any way good luck on your set up.
dts-cds dvd-audio &mch sacds & blu-ray concerts & speaker amp sound system tweaks rule
Clarification:
1. Front and Rear pre outs, assume that each channel has a pre out.
2. Different amps on cd input, meaning CD input on integrated amp, then where?
3. What do you mean about the last part?
no where else. the speakers are used for the sound on the cd input amps. I can use 30 speakers at once with no switch boxes. I know what I wanted and did it.I cant help much with the denon. that ones not used with pre outs.plus its not user friendly.I wanted it because its the best? that denon made.. I have onkyos that I use. but im sure the denon works the same way.
I experment with sound to change the sound. but it takes a lot of amps and speakers plus $... dont buy stuff yet. see if it will work on the cd input. if it works but you dont like it. try something different. any way you should get it working soon.
dts-cds dvd-audio &mch sacds & blu-ray concerts & speaker amp sound system tweaks rule
kal is the the guy to help with the set up. I know nothing about the rothscan.I think you need an amp that has pre outs thats active with out switching. I think all the mch rec with mch pre out are active all the time. at least my onkyos are.that rec for zone 2. maybe its active all the time? my set up on the onkyo is all sources are active on the preouts. I could be wrong on how that rec plays on the zone 2 preout. I started dvd audio & sacd in 2000 ive been here since the begining. mainly reading posts to buy stuff.
Its nice to have an installer to help. I like cal because he knows Im different when it comes to audio. I love doing stuff that your not suppose to do. like how many speakers can you get audio out of 2 channel sacd. not my fav format. Ive never counted but more than 4. or playing dvd audio back with 8 or more speakers. with no switch boxes.
or that oppo 95 can it play back sound 4 different ways in mch. im doing 3 way playback. plus dolby atlas. but im done for good. I discribe my sound I hear different than others too. Its very very loud with no distorsion. not man people comes over to hear it. One guy did spent the night a while back and he well liked it loud.I played 2 channel lady gaga videos for him. all 30 speakers were playing.
I know people who read this will wonder this cant be true thats why I dont post much. every one who proud of there system lists what they have. Ive updated it over the years. I started with mch but never liked the echo in the rears on some discs. theres no way to fix it. but by adding more speakers and amps it goes away.in 2005 I wanted this set up but could not afford it.
dts-cds dvd-audio &mch sacds & blu-ray concerts & speaker amp sound system tweaks rule
I rarely understand him either although his committment and enthusiasm are always apparent.
Kal
Too bad. The Denon lacks any L/R pre outs and your Roksan lacks a HT bypass function and stepped volume control. That makes it difficult to do this with the Roksan and impossible to do it with that Denon.
Kal
denon has zone 2 pre out I am thinking to get 2313 CI now, or go back to Onkyo NR TX 717 (as originally planned).
can it be done on roksan at all?
I was looking at the 2312 but the 2313 is not a slam dunk since, without reading the manual, one cannot know what are the capabilities of the Media Player and Zone 2 R/L outputs. One assumes they are volume-controlled but are they subject to the necessary bass management and Audyssey EQ or other DSP as are the main R/L channels. I suspect they are not.
I hate to be so negative but if you want to go this route, more investment may be required. Why not just get a speaker switch so you can feed the L/R speakers with either the AVR or the Roksan?
what kind have you recommended or used? again, you are a great help on these forums.
would it be something like this (link)?
This looks OK although more than you need. I cannot make any recommendations because I have only used DIY speaker switches.
Edits: 11/14/12
I have no knowledge of the Denon AVRs nor of the integrated amp, in specific.
But you are still welcome to the soup.
:-)
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