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In Reply to: RE: Ebay has some Kuro models. I can't say enough posted by Hornlover on August 19, 2014 at 08:07:25
plasma, because of its "no cost" design.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/is-samsungs-f8500-plasma-a-kuro-killer/#!bGQIsp
You'll notice the less-than-exciting comments about the Panasonic plasma and also the fact that the Samsung comments of superiority are one writer's admittedly non-objective view, i.e. the blackness wasn't subjected to test that established the Kuro's legend.
Edits: 08/20/14 08/20/14Follow Ups:
Several years after the link you used.
Jack
You are correct. My apologies. I missed the next page button and saw the comments and wrongly concluded that was the end of the article. Although, the PRO 111FD is/was current @ 2008, the Pios, just like the Pannys, got better with each generation. Somehow not surprised at all that the Panny supplied PRO 151FD didn't show as well. Don't get me wrong, I think the Pannys were/are great plasmas, even steered my brother and two co-workers to them when they wanted to buy new TV's and they love them. I still feel the last gen Pios are a little better. I damn near bought a 60" Panny ZT this past December, but latched on to a very lightly used PRO 141FD Signature and plan to live with it for at least the next 5 years. Hopefully OLED will have its poop together by then.Edit: This post was intended as reply to mrdavis842. Sorry for getting it out of sequence
Edits: 08/21/14 08/21/14
That was one review I saw. There are several others out there that claim the same thing, that the latest generation of Panasonics did indeed beat the Kuros. As good as the Kuros were, time finally passed them up. Even when I bought my 50" Panasonic, I compared it to the Kuro in the store. After they were both calibrated, the Kuro was a tad better than the Panasonic, but not enough to justify the huge difference in price. At home, with nothing else to compare it to, I still find its picture superb, and it is a 2007 model.
"beat our in-house Kuro" Which Kuro? Funny he gets no more specific than that. Hardly what I'd call a definitive statement let alone remotely supported with anything other than the reviewers own subjective claims.
You should actually read the review, he clearly states what the 2 models of Kuros were that he used. I guess you also missed where he mentions taking [objective] measurements - oh that's right, you didn't read the review. BTW, where is your support for Kuro vs. Panasonic that you are basing your argument on?
The highly respected Tom Norton reviewed both the Panasonic ZT60 and VT60 plasmas, with measurements, for Sound & Vision (October 2013). He compared them against his own Pioneer Kuro Elite Signature Series PRO-141FD with the same outcome as the CNET review.
Maybe you should reread Mr. Norton's review. What he said was ...
"It’s perhaps important to note that during this comparison, our sample of the Panasonic TC-65ZT60 had barely 150 hours on its clock, while the Pioneer Kuro PRO-141FD had four years of almost daily use behind it. With that considered, however, the bottom line is that this new Panasonic flagship can take a direct comparison to a Pioneer Kuro and come out, if not on top, at least very much on equal footing."
So, a brand new Panny is as good as a four year old Kuro is what he said. Pointless to argue over which is better. They're both excellent and is a matter of personal taste.
ALL critics or at least a consensus saw the Kuro as being beaten. I showed that wasn't so.
Also, note the Panasonic isn't manufactured anymore, making buying a new one as difficult as a new Kuro.
The build quality of the Kuro had as much to do with its rep as the legendary performance.
"ALL critics or at least a consensus saw the Kuro as being beaten. I showed that wasn't so." Really? Where? All you "showed" was a three year old article that did not even have a last gen Panasonic to compare to a Kuro not to mention that the author was talking about 2011 TVs. Two years later the very same author review the last gen Panasonics and stated that they both outperformed the Kuros:
"Let me get this out of the way first: Panasonic's TC-PZT60 is now the best-performing TV we've ever reviewed."
"The TC-PVT60 also beat our in-house Kuro"
"I've read plenty of reviews saying Kuro has never been equalled--- and never will..." Could you link some of those, I would like to read them.
"Also, note the Panasonic isn't manufactured anymore, making buying a new one as difficult as a new Kuro." Common sense says that finding a new display that was discontinued only 8 months ago is far easier and more likely than one discontinued years ago.
And this, by the moderator at forums. highdefdigest.com
"It isn't about surpassing, or having the ability to. Pioneer couldn't figure out a way to make Kuro displays without them being cost prohibitive. Kuros weren't expensive because they were making money, they were expensive because it cost a lot more to make those displays than others.
Panasonic, when they bought a lot of the Kuro technology, took what they could that could be profitable, but were not able to find a better way than Pioneer had in getting the pure blacks and quality that Pioneer had been delivering with Kuro without running into the same issue of price that Pioneer ran into.
So, while we have a ton of new bells and whistles, at the end of the day, putting out a phenomenal $8,000 50" display is going to lose manufacturers money, and so they don't even go down that path.
Panasonic has their new ZT series, but I'm not sure what the difference is between that and that VT series." That's from 2013, the last year of Panasonic plasma.
Like that legendary Sony CDP-101, it's a classic. If Panasonic infinitesimally beat the Kuro in blackness, that still leaves overall picture and build quality.
Let's see if seven years from now people are competing to pay top dollar for the Panasonics.
.
As at least 2 others have posted in this thread, the last generation Panasonic plasmas are better than the Kuros.
nt
I don't watch the computer graphics, and in real world blackness doesn't even exist.Those who claim you need the blackest black to watch the B&W film conveniently forget the fact that the blackest black on film is actually just very dark gray.
I will buy a Kuro when I am ready to watch a black hole. There is now a very special material, developed by the Brits, that is the closest thing to true black on Earth. Another candidate for Kuro.
Single-mindedness is never a good guide. To me, other things, such as natural flesh tone are far more important than Black Holes.
BTW - do you really think posting a 2011 opinion in 2014 is all that cool? :)
Edits: 08/20/14 08/20/14
rest of the spectrum. And the Kuro has the most natural color of any TV I've seen. LED doesn't come close, it's like comparing bad digital to good tube.
The Panasonic is based on the Kuro, but cheaper materials (this from a review by a techie). They also left off the truly expensive stuff so as to be able to come in at a far cheaper price point.
Anyhow, it's all somewhat subjective. I don't have an axe to grind, however, like lots of reviewers do: it wouldn't exactly help product sales to concede that excellence years ago cannot be matched.
The quest for the lowest distortions in audio amps.
Remember than .001% was better than .002%?
Same thing here... people argue that .0005 candle is "better" than .001.
And I often wonder (NOT!) just how many angels *can* dance on the head of a pin? But maybe that's just me....
-RW-
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