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...that the movie is even WORSE than I remembered it. (And I remember walking out of the theater calling it one of the worst movies I've ever seen). I've never seen so many glorious visual ideas rendered so tortuous to sit through. It's astounding to see a big budget movie with "quality" director misfire every chance it gets - I mean to a "Plan Nine 9 From Outer Space" level of incompetence, but without the ironic laugh content to brighten the experience.The only conclusion I can come to is that TPM was the product of an extremely rusty, out of touch director whose financial power had reduced everyone on his team to "yes" men. I'm sure a fly on the wall during production (especially post production) would have heard countless variations of: "I know, this scene is confusing and the acting is flat, but don't let George here you say that."
And Lucas still can't accept reality. People are criticizing the movie's plot and acting? "Well, I made it for twelve-year-olds" he retorts. With a confusing plot about an interstellar taxation feud that leaves even adults scratching their heads? Bull's-eye, George.
Everyone hated Jar Jar Binks? George says: "I think he's great! Guess what? He's the only character I'm bringing back for the sequel!"
Thanks for listening, big guy.
Lucas, like that other out-of-touch megalomaniac, Michael Jackson, seems to be combining an incredibly stubborn, insular mindset with an "I do it all for you" slogan. We can see where that has lead Jackson. I hope Lucas can pull out of it and shake the rust off for the sequel.
Hopefully a friend, Spielberg or someone, talk some honest sense into the guy.Why'd I buy TPM? To be able to dip into it's amazing effects and beautifully rendered worlds at my leisure, without having to endure the whole thing. But Oh Lordy, at what cost....
Rich H.
Follow Ups:
I've seen it countless times as I've seen the other 3 films. I never get tired of them. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact the Star Wars has been in my blood since I was 6 years old when A New Hope came out. I lived the story through the toys. It will always be a part of my life. I guess most of you guys who hate TPM have gotten too old. Or perhaps you just never got into it. Star Wars is science fiction fantasy. If you can't fantasize about the world of Star Wars you have no business seeing it.
Rob CThe world was made for people not cursed with self-awareness
Rob,I was (am) a Star Wars fan. Saw the first one around thirty times in the theater. I love sci-fi, and I love entering the world of a sci-fi film.
Which is why I was so amazed at how difficult it was to get into TPM.
I dearly wanted to be taken to another place, but the movie put so many obstacles in my way, in the form of horrible or unappealing characters, acting and plot, that it was a very frustrating experience.When Jurassic Park first came out some people scoffed at seeing it after hearing the character and plot were fairly thin. My retort was:
"Jurassic Park isn't just a movie, it's a form of event - it has brought dinosaurs to life in front of our eyes. A space shuttle lift off or a trip to the zoo doesn't need a plot - certain concepts or experiences are awe-inspiring in of themselves. Think of Jurassic Park as a trip to an incredible zoo."But even with that mindset I found the Phantom Menace was tough going.
It just put too many obstacles between me and my entry into it's world. No matter what the excuses, that movie just is full of overreaching dramatic moments that fall flat, head scratching plot developments, logical holes, dull performances from great actors, and one truly irritating main character character.That this is a "Star Wars Film" is no excuse for a poor showing on those counts. I note that in the Phantom Menace documentary on the DVD that even George seems to know he blew it upon his first screening. Plus, they show the wild enthusiasm from Star Wars fans at the premier, right up until the credits start, but of course they refrain from showing footage of the crowds post screening reactions.
Wonder why?That said, the visuals and sound are absolutely freaking mind blowing, and it really amazed me to see that some viewers (and critics) took pot shots at the effects as well as the plot/acting.
Believe me, I take no "holier than thou" stance: I like a whole bunch of films that are on most levels just awful, and which I could never defend on grounds of merit. So, I don't mean to question your enjoyment of the film - it's great that it worked for you. I hope the next installment works for me :-)
Rich H.
nt
nt
I will concede the DTS issue with you, but really, how many of the joe sixpacks even have the EX feature yet, let alone DTS ( or know the difference between that and DD?)?
First of all, just do a search of DVD players (about 98% have a DTS digital output) or surround processors/receivers (about 85% have DTS decoders). Even if "joe sixpack" doesn't know what DTS is, he gets it without asking. He can then decide for himself if he would rather use the DTS track or the DD track -- it's his choice, not the "bound at the hip" team of Lucas and Dolby. Second, George Lucas has said that when he releases the Star Wars material outside of theaters, he wants to give the people the best video and audio experience that is available. As you have conceded the DTS "issue", you already know that DTS is superior when it comes to audio quality. What happened to giving people the best that's available? We got DD for political reasons -- not because it's the best. In a recent interview, the people at Lucas said that we didn't get DTS due to space limitations. What a load of crap. We know the real reason -- George and Ray, sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g... What we should have on the Phantom Menace DVD is a 24-bit DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete soundtrack at the highest bitrate. But, the bottom line is that we didn't get the best. Why should we? Because I want it -- and that's more than enough reason to provide it. As a matter of fact, we all deserve the best. Think we'll get a DTS track when the Indiana Jones movies get released? Don't bet on it.
nt
nt
Have you actually seen it? The edge enhancement resulting in white halos around characters silouhetted aginst a blue sky or dark background are the worst on any DVD in recent memory. Sharpness and graininess also vary hugely from scene to scene. This is a below average DVD given the current standard of production.Speaking purely in terms of image and sound compare this to the Superbit version of The Fifth Element. In terms of picture quality its like comparing Scooby Doo to Fantasia...
joe
"And Lucas still can't accept reality. People are criticizing the movie's plot and acting?"Take another look at A New Hope, mate. As great a film as it is, the acting in it is just short of abominable. The acting in TPM far outshines the first (fourth) instalment of the series.
And if you can't figure out the plot, well, I don't know what sort of director you're going to make, cause I never had a problem figuring it out myself.
"Take another look at A New Hope, mate. As great a film as it is, the acting in it is just short of abominable. The acting in TPM far outshines the first (fourth) instalment of the series."Thats just your opinion and I think you'll find almost everyone disagrees with it.
"And if you can't figure out the plot, well, I don't know what sort of director you're going to make, cause I never had a problem figuring it out myself."
I think his plot comment doesnt have anything to do with trouble figuring it out - its more on how insipid and thin it is as a basis for the movie and the series that follows.
Plot, well how can we judge it when there are two to go?Hey, I love the film!
Aside from Sir Alec Guiness's oscor nominated performance, Peter Cushing's Governer Tarkin, Harrison Ford's early Han Solo, the bulk of the acting was really bad.
Uncle Owen....."now come on, get to it...."
Wedge..... "that's impossible, even for a computer"
The Barman's pathetic turn,
and yes, even Luke in some instances portrayed a wooden performance (check out the special edition scene when he catches up with his former friend Biggs for the best - but not only - example).There are a more, I'll follow up later, but I'm getting tired.
"Everyone hated Jar Jar Binks? George says: "I think he's great! Guess what? He's the only character I'm bringing back for the sequel!""Where did you hear that?? What a load!!! Obi Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Queen Amidala, Yoda, Mace (Samuel L Jackson) Windu, Darth (Senator Palpatine) Sidious, Watto, Shmi Skywalker, Jabba & more are ALL in Episode 2!!!!!
I work in Hollywood where the big premiere had people sleeping in lines on the sidewalk for a couple months outside Graumans (now Manns) Chinese so they could claim they saw the first show.My wife and I went to see it after the crowds left. I was shocked at what a POS it was. I looked at my watch wondering if it was almost over and found I was only 40 minutes into the film. I turned to my wife and said "Can you imagine what you must be thinking this far into the film when you've been sleeping on the sidewalk for 3 months"
Just saw the ad for Episode 2 "Crumbling Clones" due out in May 2002.
I don'y know about you guys but I'm getting my tent an sleeping bag out this weekend.
Steve
just reinforces the truth that good acting and a good script can hold one's attention better than the best special effects money can buy. Worst acting I've seen in awhile, but at least the plot was weak.
Let me first just say that I was desperate to like this movie. Here is my list of what was wrong with TPM.1. Lucas completely undermined his own story -- Wars-Empire-Jedi were all about the triumph of man over machine, faith over science. Now we find out that the Force is nothing but blood-borne microbes? Where's the mystery, the spirituality?
2. The lack of a well defined villain. Darth Vader, from the first time he came on camera, was a constant, terrifying presence. Darth Maul looked cool, but was really nothing but an attack dog.
3. Plot holes so big you could drive a truck through them -- How did a teenager get "elected" queen? I think this was a lame attempt to show that the good guys were a democracy (how pc of you, George).
4. The lack of a charismatic lead. Without the swagger of Han Solo, or even the teen-rebellion angst of Luke Skywalker, TPM had nobody the viewer could identify with. I was crushed when Obi-Wan was cut down in Star Wars, and yet felt nothing when Qui-Gon bought the farm.
5. The part of Anikin Skywalker was simply too young. A thirteen-year-old, going through puberty and developing his first crush on Amidala would have made Anakin's descision to leave his mother behind a bit more believable. How Lucas is ever going to get the Queen to fall for someone ten years her junior will be interesting to say the least.
Just my $.02
he he he he he he he he he
Gives the term "dark side" a whole new meaning, dosen't it? :)
.
I'd imagine what it was like during the filming: those guys in goofy costumes trying to do their lines in front of a green back-drop. Exaggerated but you get the idea, or talking to imaginary figure before Jar Jar's added to the picture. All the CGI stuff erode the whole convincing element IMO in all the movies nowadays to both actors and to us. So much of technological advancement.
Oh, I don't know. Toy Story I and II were pretty good, and they were both entirely CGI.
I guess, guys, none of you is twelve years old anymore. Sure, the first time I saw this movie it didn't live up to my expectations. But it was my expectations that were wrong, not the movie. I've seen TPM several times now, and it just gets better and better with each viewing. Aren't those Trade Federation guys brilliant? Just listen to the way they deliver their lines: "Do you think they suspect an attack?" "Have you ever encountered a Jedi before, sir?"Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Must watch it again sometime soon...
I agree with you completely. The first time I saw it, it lacked.......I don't know, something. Jar Jar shyted me, to say the least, and Queen (16yo)Amidala - who'd elect a teenager to rule a planet?? But the more I see it, the better it gets. I think what Lucas had in mind was to present the evolution of the Star Wars universe from a bright & semi-happy democracy, to an evil & brutal dictatorship. I don't think any judgement should be passed until we see the series evolve from episode I, to the end of episode III and into episode IV.On the Jar Jar side of things, the more I watch the film the more he becomes part of the universe. Now, the only thing that gives me the shytes in this film is the totally unnecessary scene before the podrace, where Jar Jar is farted on by some animal. What is the point??
.
The real issue here is that while the first 2 Star Wars films embraced both young and old, or in a more corny way of sying it - the child in all of us, the last film in the original triology veered into kiddy land, fuzzy creatures and toy product placements. He's completed the evolution here with PM in that all of the thinkers and drivers of the action are now children. Children who dont need to be able to act because thats a subtlety lost on an 8 year old audience.An audience that LOVES fart jokes.
Unfortuantely for him Shrek and Monsters Inc. do the kid thing even better than he does. And adults go to those films expecting a childrens film with enough adult humor to interest them too. Unfortunately for him (and us as well) the adults remeber what the first films delivered and against that yardstick what follows will inevitably come up short so long as he continues down this path.
joe
You're right, the first three films were actually made for adults, but (thanks to their PG rating) still had appeal for children.
No matter what Lucas says, they weren't intended as children's films.If you read the ORIGINAL novel, Lucas describes the death of Stormtroopers as - the energy bolt hit the trooper in the head, sending splintered fragments of helmet, bone and flesh.....etc.
Kid's films, huh George?
I think what really happened is, since he made the bulk of his money from merchandising, and the bulk of the merchandising dollars came from kid's toys etc, he had a grand scheme to kidify the new ones. Just look at the special editions. Han used to kill Greedo in cold blood!!!!!!!
Plus there's the fact that in the twentyish years since ROTJ, he's had his own children, some are still in grade school. He's mellowed.
Come on!! He TORTURED Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back!!!
....will be interesting to see since "most of the characters in the first film will be dead by the conclusion of episode 3."Have you read the prequel spoilers?
Tom §.
Where can the spoilers be found ?Thanks,
Ross
Click if you really want to be spoilt.Tom §.
you're peeved because, as an adult, you feel you've been excluded from the "kiddy-fied" TPM? That what you're looking for is something a bit more adult than fart gags, and that TPM doesn't pander to you on that score?:)
I rented this clunker too. I'm not really sure why as seeing it in the theater made me angry. And dammit if it didn't infuriate me again. A blond moppet with the emotional range of a toaser oven. A lackadasical rastafarian alien with more lines than any human. A set of actors going through the motions with a script so limp that a cereal box is a more emotionally satisfying read.Phantom Menace should be a synonym for insipid in any Thesaurus published from this point forward.
Or perhaps Phantom Menace should be added to the dictionary with the definition - "When you have so much money no one can tell you no"
And the video transfer is abominable. There is more edge enghancement in this DVD than any in recent memory - and is it just me, but are all these aliens, i.e, humans in rubber prosthetics, looking more and more unreal in each installment in the series?
Pathetic. Simply pathetic.
joe
"A set of actors going through the motions with a script so limp that a cereal box is a more emotionally satisfying read."Yes! It says a lot about Lucas that he can take an an actor like Liam Neeson and drain him of life to the point that he looks embalmed. That the actor's performances were uninvolving is clear to anyone looking at the actors. However, it seems Lucas was incapable of actually focussing on the actors; of ignoring for a moment the periphery of scenic details in which he was placing them.
For someone with previous acting experience Natalie Portman's performance was so callow and limpid I couldn't believe she was put in a such a central role. She looked like some young high-school girl who was asked "Wanna be in a movie?" - "Yeah, sure, I uh, guess..."
I swear most of my college films contain performances by my non-acting friends that are more gripping.Also, I was shocked at how bad the sound was for some of Liam's dialogue. He delivers his lines with so little life that it sounds off-mic, like bad "production set" sound that we typically replace in post production. Yet they kept the takes in the movie. For what? The performance? Yikes.
What makes TPM so unsightly is that the viewer is aware of the targets the movie is aiming for (that Jar Jar is supposed to be amusing, that we are supposed to care about that cruddy Kid and his Mother..), yet over and over we have to watch it miss that target horribly. OR, the movie is sending signals so confusing, off in it's own little world concerning what it believes is dramatically important, that it has all the squeamish charm of watching your grandmother loose her marbles.
Whatever,
Rich H.
"Yes! It says a lot about Lucas that he can take an an actor like Liam Neeson and drain him of life to the point that he looks embalmed."And the really scary part was that he was the best thing in the movie...
joe
...about the Portman comments too. How in the hell did he manage to extract a braindead preteen performance from an actress as mature beyond her years as this? She's as interesting to watch as any young actress today but in this film (er, um... product placement vehicle?) she does come off as lacking in even basic talent, emotional range and conviction. And god, it literally hurt to hear Samuel L. Jackson deliver those wooden lines of his in the presence of the blonde moppet from hell....It is indeed a rare director who can assemble results this pathetic form such talented raw materials.
joe
Didn't Neeson say, after this was over (and before the film was released) words to the effect of "I'm never going to make that mistake again!"Or am I just hoping that an actor whom I admire would say that?
Before the film was released (maybe 2-3 months) Neeson made disparaging remarks about the film in the form of plot critique, the character he had to play, the working conditions (interfacing with air), and the pay (they expect you to take the salary because you are supposed to be honored to just be working on star wars). When the movie was released, I believe our "esteemed" friend heard the lucasfilm cash register ring open and made some remarks that were rather contradictory to what he stated earlier and he was rather cooperative with peripheral lucasfilm type projects (interviews, behind the scenes etc). Oh well. We're talking about a guy who was also in "Krull", "Darkman", and "Excalibur". I wonder what his next mi$take will be?Tom §.
Unfortunately, I think you've hit the nail right on the head. Sad, really. I think he gets one more shot with the sequel to "Menace" and then he's lost his audience.Too bad. The first 3 were so much fun.
However, you should still get one for all the good movies; in "Buffy" vernacular, tape is just so over!BTW, I agree once again with your opinion and have said basicly the same thing to friends who waited in long lines as I did to see it (i.e., that Lucas has one more shot at satisfying the Star Wars fans)! As we quietly exitted the theater a couple of our friends even tried to convince themselves that it was a good film, excusing their disappointment with the idea that they'd probably become jaded to the whole Star Wars series, which I told them is nonsense. Uninteresting and obnoxious characters in a weak plot that you could drive an Imperial cruiser through was the reason for their disappointment and mine! I even considered, momentarily, returning to the ticket booth and demanding my money back, which is something I'd only done once before, but decided to give Lucas [in the tradition of P.T. Barnum] some credit for suckering me into the theater.
All I can add is that Episode II had better be a lot more fun or it's adios muchacho for "Star Woes" from Audiophilander.
Cheers,
AuPh
You can see what a piece of shit it really is. Pardon the language.
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