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In Reply to: RE: "I Was a Communist for the F.B.I." posted by free.ranger on January 18, 2021 at 08:28:05
d
In fact communists are responsible for more death and sufferings, but strangely enough they still hold some attraction in some minds.It is too bad they were not squashed, mecrilessly, in 1945, together with their Nazi soul mates.
The Allies have demonstrated just how dirty the politics can be. Forcefully sending the former soviet citizens to their death in Gulag was just one of the many dirty chapters.
Edits: 01/20/21
there were approximately 60 million natives in the New World. There was a fraction left by 1900. Millions of Africans perished under slavery, also, in the New World.
Man himself, not just one people or some leaders, can be cruel in the extreme.
It has been so going back to the beginning of recorded history. When armies of "the great" Alexander or some other egomaniac swept through an area, famine followed close behind as his army devastated fields, food storage, and "conscripted" necessary animals. The Old Testament, itself, records many mass slaughters.
And pick your cause of death.
Disease? Alcohol? Forced migration? And more.
As a percentage, maybe the 'old school' slaughters exceeded modern....but for sheer numbers?
tough to beat Mao.
As for Al The Great? I don't think he imposed his religion but rather tried to incorporate the new into his system. Unlike the Christians who decimated all non-Christian relegions wherever they went.
The fun continues in China. Tibet? Uyghur peoples, (Moslem)?
Too much is never enough
Mao is considered the leader of the 'mass murderer' sweepstakes.
60,000,000 is about hte middle of the estimates which range higher and lower.
Don't forget this is a career total spanning maybe 45 years or so.
Anybody still read? Or more specifically read Biography? Here is link to what is probably The best reaearched bio I ever read. '
I need to get my copy down from the shelf for a re-read.
Too much is never enough
...puts his estimate at 76 million Chinese, and 61 million in USSR.
Put together, the communists killed perhaps 150 million people just in the 20th century.
Germany is assigned 26 million killed.
But what is funny in the extreme... it is not fashionable to love the Nazi.
But it is perfectly acceptable to salivate over the communists. Heck, that will guarantee a success at a cocktail party. People flaunt it.
Disgusting...
why would anyone? ;-)
Like I said, the book I quote is around the middle of the estimates for the numbers of Chinese killed in all the festivities.
Too much is never enough
It is incredibly hard to come up with accurate numbers, as the murderers were very good at covering their crimes.
It seems the only way to cure the socialist disease is by letting its admirers to live under it, because personal accounts don't matter to them. Books upon books have been written by those, who survived those "worker's paradises", but these are hardly bestsellers.
But hey... "they have free medicine there!".
Yes.....You need a lot of information which is simply guesswork or unavailable. Such guessing games depress me, since we ARE talkng abouit People, here.
People seem to prefer equalityu of outcome over equality of opportunity. At least until they realize that they have No opportunity and must settle.....
Eric Hoffer Said: 'People who Bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them'.....
Too much is never enough
...only the Nazi kept good record of murders. Even thought some of their archives were inevitably lost, it is possible to get closer to real numbers.If you consider the soviets, the estimates range from 60-70 million by Solzhenitsyn, to about the same by Rummel, to... (I hope you are sitting down) 600,000 by their government. On top of that you will also hear: "And many of them were truly guilty!"
The only difference between the Nazi and the communists was their methods. The Russians were too backward for the industrial methods, so they simply drowned 10,000 people in a barge, or burnt them in a church.
Still, the stories of the communist executioners, wearing aprons, standing knee-deep in blood are well documented.
One such guy conducted a perfectly normal family life, with a wife and kids, and went to work every day with his briefcase.
There all he did was shoot people. His record, apparently, was 500 people killed in one day.
He later retired peacefully and died in his bed.
But you will not hear any of such stories from the Western liberals.
You will hear, instead, of "free" education and medicine, of their culture, ballet and caviar, and of what a wonderful time they had on a cruise there.
Edits: 01/21/21 01/21/21
d
.
Nt
communism, and everything to do with totalitarianism, which can exist under communism OR capitalism (or any other political/economic system).
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
In reality there are two modern forms of totalitarism: communism and fascism. Neither one presumes or allows free capitalist economy as we tend to understand it.While it is true, that fascists did not nationalize the economy, like the communists did, it was still subordinate to their goals, and under heavy government control.
Edits: 01/21/21
by strict definition it 'could' be possible but that would be way closer
to fascism ... the gov't would scoop all profits in that instance, probably via monstrous taxation ... and before the usual suspects here get a poli boner, no that's not where the US is at, not even close
with regards,
Yet 'capitalism' is getting bad press among the literati. This would be a group that favors equality of OUTCOME over the concept of equality of OPPORTUNITY.
They do not distinguish between capitalism and a capatalist, either.
And Yes, I'd judge National Socialism to be an economic system, more than merely political.
A cover concept might be that of 'command economy'??
Too much is never enough
health care. No mainstream "liberal" favors equality of outcome. That is a fake argument repeated endlessly.
And "capitalism" means circulation of money. Not stagnating in purely speculative or banking piles. No spending, no true capitalism. You may wish to consider the part governance has to play in all of this, unless you care to argue with Alan Greenspan.
Favor Friedman over Greenspan.
A little something from Friedman.
Milton Friedman, in his book "Free to Choose", detailed the four ways to spend money:
You spend your own money on yourself.
You spend your own money on someone else.
You spend someone else's money on yourself.
You spend someone else's money on someone else.
The gov specializes in #4 and cares not for efficacy or value.
Too much is never enough
'The gov specializes in #4'
really? what if #4 isn't a person, but a bridge or a highway?
or are we all supposed to get together on weekends and pony up for a few inches of construction from our Christmas Club account?
that Friedman comment was taken out of context and repurposed you know
mutating into part of trickle down voodoo economic talking points
it was criticizing the failure of free market capitalism to meet the needs that necessitate government programs and how those are administered, not their existence ... how did you come away with another reading of it?
oops, I've got to make a move and keep an appointment, later!
regards,
I'm not going to get wrapped around the axle on this and the Minutia you swim in as a habit.
Fact is? Nobody can answer the question whether the government 'pushes' spending and programs DOWN or if people ask or perhaps 'demand' programs and pull UP.
St Louis Fed had a very good article on this which I wish I could find / link but it has been a long time.
Money is power. Money in Politics is influence. Influence means you CAN get your 'own way'.
This is why corporate personhood is maybe even Evil.
And again, I must ask, is it capitalism or capitalists? Or maybe the unholy alliance between politicians who think office is a lifetime appointment and capitalists?
Too much is never enough
'I wish I could find / link but it has been a long time'
that's OK I can look for it
'Money is power ... etc. '
yes indeed ... incontrovertible fact
'And again, I must ask, is it capitalism or capitalists ...' etc.
I cannot imagine how you separate the two and agree with the rest
'the Minutia you swim in as a habit'
I'd expect a remark like that from CFL ... but you? are we debating or having a conversation here? what's with the snark?
look, your minutia isn't any more righteous than any one else's ... you're examining the devil in the details in your post, so how does one respond except to examine it along with you?
never mind, hope you have a better day. I'll wait for you to ditch all the question marks so I can tell if you think you've figured it all out ... /s
best regards,
Wow - I am REALLY in your brain! But as I said before, the roomy accommodations there suit me just fine! ;-)
And BTW, you decry "the snark" and yet you make pronouncements from "on high", e.g., "so I can tell if you think you've figured it all out". . . as if you have it all figured out and should sit in judgment to determine if the little people have attained your sublime understanding of things, o mighty one! ;-)
you beat me too it......
Too much is never enough
aw man ... don't do me like that
; )
see what you did CFL! pictureguy's pissed now!
or maybe just 'miffed' ... or pulling my chain ... or
anyway, I blame you!!
I do take the sins of others (well, the venial sins anyway!) unto myself sometimes - it can be hard work, but somebody's got to do it! ;-)
lol
I know what I did, no you're not, and thank you for following me on the forums, I appreciate you as well, that's why I name checked you!
with regards,
I think he surely does ... he just did a compare contrast between two of the most lurid 'flavors' of it
totalitarianism that is. from following his posts he's quite erudite on it
there's also starvation, bad water & throttled medical rights under some systems rather than out & out bloodletting ... same goals
I think you misinterpreted the post Mark
best regards,
Look at the Ethnic Cleansing going on in CHINA right now.
Tibet? Will eventually be a suburb of Beijing......
The Uyghur people are on the chopping block, too.....
Too much is never enough
yes ... by communist ... and?
there's shit shows in shit holes all around the world
still, all in keeping with Victor's point
though neither he nor MWE touched on pogroms
often there are no 'better angles' that show up
regards,
to object to the "numbers game."
"Commies are worse than Nazis because they killed more." Human lives shouldn't be weighed like a commodity. And there were massacres and widespread, organized killings from the earliest days of our species (examination of pre-historic bones show it). Heck the Old Testament includes God's curse of cannibalism.
We indeed are "red in tooth and claw."
... plague blankets anyone?
but it's apropos to mention body counts in a film forum, no?
so moving right along ... next!
with regards,
Indeed Victor. Socialism=Communism.
I think you'd get a lot of disagreement on that claim. We already have elements of socialism in this country - such as medicare, social security, unemployment benefits. . . Does that make you afraid that we're headed towards communism? - or were you being sarcastic? ;-)
in fourteen hundred and ninety two?
We need to make a distinction here.
The New world was systematically plundered and killed off by ALL the colonial powers. Make a list.
This destruction took a couple hundred years and even today, at least one American Indian Tribe has a lawsuit to try to enfore an 1800s treaty. And they won't settle for cash....which has been offered.
OTOH?
Mao was the driving force behind the Chinese self-immolation for nearly 5 decades. It averages out to over 1 Million personss per year.
Too much is never enough
thank heavens it isn't just one monomaniac who's responsible!"
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