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In Reply to: RE: Well, this thread kicked off with statistics about the entire installed base of game consoles posted by racerguy on July 02, 2007 at 18:18:24
available on HD video formats. The existing compromises with 25G and 30G discs suggest to me movies which take advantage of Blu-ray 50G disc bandwidth and storage capacity provide the best possible AQ and PQ which I feel is necessary to help separate HD video from DVD. The HD-DVD mantra of "good enough" just isn't good enough IMHO. But then again, I'm shooting for the very best video/audio from the currently available video formats which perhaps unfortunately separates me from your average consumer.
Anyone posting on this forum should already have an interest in the best possible audio quality for their home audio systems. They should also be interested in the best possible audio and video quality for their Home Theater systems. Blu-ray does the best job of and has the highest potential of delivering the best possible AQ and PQ capable of today's Hi-def video consumer formats. That is, until the next generation Ultra HD formats with Terabyte portable/hard drive/holographic/?? media becomes available.
Follow Ups:
So far, there hasn't been any proof that the higher bandwidth or greater storage has given a superior picture. While Disney tried to do this with the Pirates movies, recent reviews have have said that Paramount's Black Snake Moan is just as good PQ and both BD and HD have the same AVC encoding.From the Highdefdigest review:
"Boasting superb visuals equal to 'Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest,' 'Black Snake Moan' features reference quality video that quite simply has to be seen to be believed. The Blu-ray and HD DVD versions are identical to my eye and fans of both formats should be ecstatic with this release."
Pity I'm not interested in the movie.
JackEDIT: OK, curiosity got the better of me, so I ordered it.:-)
However, the HD-DVD has an extra DDplus soundtrack, presumably because the Blu-ray is a single layer 25G which presumably didn't have the space. In this case, the HD-DVD's better storage allowed for a better soundtrack. Now if they had used a 50G Blu-ray disc, it would be an different matter entirely.
A better example might be "Nature's Journey". a music video which tries to maximize the available storage/bit rates for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Both versions use VC-1 and DTS encoding; the Blu-Ray uses the higher bitrate encodes (lossless for audio). I expect the differences to be subtle, but perhaps noticeable in the better HT setups.
According to insiders over at AVS, Paramount doesn't use the same encodes for both formats. Sony does the AVC for BD, and an idependant house does the AVC for HD DVD.
Jack
Since the Pirates movies were supposed to prove BD's extra space and bits gave a better picture than HD can *ever* get, BSM, pretty much shows that's not true.
I have little faith in RBfilms' neutrality. He's already saying that his next project will be BD only. He has openly bashed HD DVD because it limited the bitrate of MPEG-2 that he used for Chronos (thats why VC-1 and AVC are better), claiming that MPEG-2 was superior to all other codecs. Add to this the fact that he claimed he got no help from M$ with the compressing, and I'm skeptical that it will be VC-1 at its best. I'll probably pass on this disc, I was rather disappointed with Chronos.
Jack
PS. He'll be using HD15 and BD25s for this. I expect his BD to be better, since that is his preference-it'll be a shot at the HD folks that gave him grief for using MPEG-2 on Chronos.
POTC was a bad enough waste of money; Yes the PQ was VERY GOOD but not perfect; probably better than King Kong IMHO. YMMV.
I agree MPEG2 and single layer HD-DVD are probably a bad combo, but I certainly agree with RBFILMs' concerns on the bandwidth/storage capacity limitations of HD-DVD. And if it takes a lot of TLC to make sure a low bit rate VC-1 encode doesn't ruin the PQ, then that's another argument against the use of low bitrate VC-1 (and another partial dig at HD-DVD). They appear to have legitimate concerns about the use of HD-DVD IMHO.
Are single layer discs (Blu-ray or HD-DVD) that much cheaper than dual layer discs ? I'd expect single layer discs might be appropriate for 1 hour music videos (at least with Blu-ray).
I watched BSM last night. The movie was actually pretty good. The PQ was very good, but didn't blow me away-didn't make me go "WOW".
I read Richard's tirades over at AVS forum, an have come to the conclusion that I really don't like him. I won't go into details or name calling, but he likes to air his dirty laundry in public. I also think the VC-1 comparison will be suspect. I seriously doubt if I'll be buying any of his products in the future.
Side Note: I did order a Samsung BDP-1200, that should get here by next week. I ordered 4-5 movies from Amazon, and that will do me with regards to BD for a while.
> > Blu-ray does the best job of and has the highest potential of delivering the best possible AQ and PQ capable of today's Hi-def video consumer formats. < <
The same thing was said about Laserdisc. Quite a success, wasn't it?
I just hope HD-DVD doesn't interfere with Blu-Ray's admittedly slim chances of success.
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Even without MP3s, those formats wouldn't have caught on. Nobody was interested in better audio. Apathy killed them-we'll have to see about the video equivelent.
Jack
Is what IMHO were the chief reasons why it didn't go further. Even though a CD layer is now included on a hybrid and at very little add'l cost and most agree on the hi-rez forum the SACD layer exceeds the sound of the CD is basically irrelavant I suppose for most.
I suppose the addition of another player didn't help matters but there is a double whammy with HD video because one also needs a display capable to show distinct differences.
But that's probably only because I haven't reached a certain minimum threshold of vinyl collection to warrant a TT/phonostage investment.
That musical niche has wholeheartedly embraced SACD, and many of its small labels are still making SACDs, AFAIK. Classicstoday.com still wites reviews of them. :-)
Jack
Still I'd bite on "pure DSD" titles of first rate Symphonies (e.g. NY Philharmonic).
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I've said repeatedly this war isn't between blu-ray and HD-DVD but between HDTV and SDTV. At the same time plasmas were getting bigger and 1080P was coming to market, other manufacturers were making TVs smaller and putting broadcasts on iPods and computer windows.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
iPods and downloads are fine for YouTube stuff, but I don't think there's much of a market for this amongst movie-watchers.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Having the disc in-hand works much better for me; but then again, I don't rent movies anymore. HD downloads via the internet is a nonplayer at least in the near-term; I don't expect the infrastructure will support real-time downloads anytime soon.
...to playback cable/sat-sourced HD movies anytime, without accessing an outside server. Amongst my non-videophile friends and neighbors (and my wife too), this is the current popular approach. No one goes to Blockbuster anymore.
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