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In Germany the HD-DVD has the movie as Part 1 and Part 2 split over two discs, and they don't even have PCM. Blu-ray is one disc with PCM.
HD DVD: Audio DD+ only. Order of the Phoenix to be a 2-disc edition.
Blu-ray: Audio DD and PCM (English). Order of the Phoenix to be single-disc but include same contents as DVD and HD DVD.
How much longer do we have to pretend the format with greater disc capacity isn't better?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
I tried translating that web page using Google's language tools, but it still wasn't too clear to me whether there would be an actual quality difference between the HD DVD and Blu-Ray soundtracks? If B-D does indeed get the better soundtrack, that's probably the version I'll buy, otherwise, eh, whatever.
But honestly, we who argue over these sorts of details are a tiny minority, and there probably aren't enough of us to sustain the high def movie business: High-def disk players really need to go mainstream. How's about a distinctive and stylish player that's HDMI-only, hence impossible to set up wrong or less than optimally? Include the cable and a good movie in the box, and get it into the hands of new TV buyers: Let the first thing they watch on their new set be a good movie in all it's 1080p glory, and I think you'll get new converts. I always thought Apple was really smart with their first DVD-equipped iMac computers: They included a copy of "A Bug's Life" in the box, and that was a wonderful way to get folks immediately excited about the technology.
> > but it still wasn't too clear to me whether there would be an actual quality difference between the HD DVD and Blu-Ray soundtracks? If B-D does indeed get the better soundtrack, that's probably the version I'll buy, otherwise, eh, whatever. < <
I speak and read German. Keep in mind that these are the European versions of the release, not the US versions. What it says is that the Blu Ray version will have English-language soundtracks in garden-variety Dolby Digital and in 5.1 PCM. Non-English-language soundtracks (i.e. German/French/Spanish) will be in Dolby Digital.
The HD DVD version will have all soundtracks in Dolby Digital Plus. So for a European who wants the best-quality soundtrack in a language other than English, the HD DVD version will be a better choice, assuming everything else is equal (and assuming the information on the website is correct). Keep in mind that we're also assuming that a PCM soundtrack is always superior to a Dolby Digital Plus soundtrack, which in each individual case may or may not be true.
Sadly, it's this kind of uncertainty and variability that helped to marginalize and ultimately kill off DVD-Audio. I hope the BDA and the HD DVD people realize this before it's too late.
Your DD+ soundtrack might sound better (I seriously doubt it) based on any particular HT system because of how they massage the sound but it won't represent the original intent of the master audio tape. I'll lobby for the highest possible audio resolution be made available to me on HD media. So far, Blu-Ray has done a better job of delivering this than HD DVD has.
If HD DVD wants my business, they are going to have to start routinely releasing movies with lossless audio tracks AND "almost artifactless" video. I seriously doubt they can do it; though even Blu-ray would have trouble meeting the standard I'm asking for.
"Transformers" is another blockbuster release screaming for the best possible AQ/SQ. Unfortunately Paramount saw fit (and/or did not have choice) to release this without a lossless audio track. This development just further reinforces suspicions HD DVD cannot deliver topnotch video and lossless audio with the same movie because of storage limitations/bandwidth limitations.
> > > Unfortunately Paramount saw fit (and/or did not have choice) to release this without a lossless audio track. This development just further reinforces suspicions HD DVD cannot deliver topnotch video and lossless audio with the same movie because of storage limitations/bandwidth limitations. < < <
Troy is 20 minutes longer, and has TrueHD. Paramount chose not to use lossless, for reasons only they know, and use DD+ at 1.5Mbs instead. Let me know when BD puts out a better version.
Jack
...and is also not always correct. As an example - I have a concert DVD that has both PCM and lossy DTS on it. The DTS soundtrack is clearly superior to the PCM soundtrack, because much more care was put into creating the DTS soundtrack. The PCM soundtrack was obviously a quick-and-dirty dump, and it sounds horrible.
the released lossy or lossless audio track. Maybe I should have caveated with: "everything else being equal".
Oscar is talking about lossless PCM at a greater bitrate than DD provides. I don't see how a reasonable person can argue against lossless PCM. It just seems like you'll poke around until you find one example where the DD and LPCM versions sound the same and use it to bash the idea that lossless PCM is the way to go. That's just a counter-quality position.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
...and respond to that (if you can), because your irrelevant pontificating just makes you look clueless.
And you're back to the insults. Surprise, surprise.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > And you're back to the insults. < <
Oh, sorry about that. Let me try a compliment instead:
Jazz, your ability to read a post and completely miss the point is truly impressive.
kind of like what Disney did for the Pirates movies.
Jack
.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
It says the HD DVD set will be a two-disc set. It also says the bonus material will be identical to the DVD version. The implication is that the movie will be on Disc One and the bonus material will be on Disc Two, but it is not stated that way.
But I think the fact that a two-disc set required for HD DVD provides the same content as a one disc on Blu-ray makes the point regardless.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Lots of them out there on DVD (such as the LOTR Extended Edition sets), and I've never heard anyone complain. I think it would be better not to split a film if it's not necessary, but having a film split across two discs doesn't bother me. Once upon a time, all but the shortest films had intermissions.
Considering they got King Kong on 1 disc, and that's over 3 hrs, this will fit easily.
Jack
I had the exact opposite conversation with a Blu-ray basher concerning POTC on another forum.
It'll fit on one discs-put the extras on the second. Its not a big deal, usually bing called the Special edition. :-)
The IFA reports came out last week, hence my posts on the new BD players.
Jack
So what does that do to your manufacturing expenses, that seemed so meaningful earlier today?
What about PCM? Not important?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
As Paramount pointed out, its very important to the studios.
jack
Turning away 67% of the HD movie market and favoring discs that can't hold as much as Blu-ray might indeed save a little bit in manufacturing costs.
It's also right up there with the dumbest business moves in the saga of HD.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Paramount made roughly $1.5 Billion last year. The best selling HD discs (300) have only sold a couple hundred thousand copies. Only a few broke 100,000. Some sell in the tens of thousands, but many don't even sell 1,000 discs.Remember:
DVD=99%
BD=0.6%
HD DVD=0.4%From the beginning to the end of July, there have only been 3.7 Million discs sold by both formats combined (2.2M BD, 1.5M HD DVD).
We aren't talking big bucks here. Paramount may have given up the equivalent of pocket change now, for bigger gains down the road (cheaper replication costs, better infrastructure etc.). Time will tell if they were right.
Jack
I wholeheartedly agree about perspective. So if you know that, why is this tiny manufacturing issue a blip on your radar?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > So if you know that, why is this tiny manufacturing issue a blip on your radar? < < <
Good question. My answer is, that I'm not convinced they can solve the problems satisfactorily. The BDA has been working on this for quite a few years now, and *still* the issues remain. If they don't fix the problems soon, its going to hit the fan when the subsidies run out.
Jack
That wouldn't be very good news at all for Blu-ray (unless they go back to 25G disks).
.
I imagine that if the movie studios can bring down costs to produce a Blu-Ray or HD DVD movie sufficiently low, they could be looking at very very nice margins because these movies typically command much higher prices, whereas standard DVD sales are in a slump, and prices are discounted. It's like Apple and iPhone: There, the company's goal is to capture 1% of the USA mobile phone market, and that might not seem like a lot, until you realize it's the choicest part of the market where there's serious money to be made.
And that's what shareholders like to see--growth. DVD is a cash cow, but it is a mature market.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
.
PCM only matters to us audio nuts. Neither SACD nor DVD-A succeeded but the MP3 is making a good inroad on the CD. The consumers that are going to decide if one/both of these formats succeeds has a $300 HTiB that is set-up wrong and not calibrated.
King Kong is 181 minutes and is on one HD DVD disc. Batman Begins is only 3 minutes shorter than POtC and it fit on one disc. I thought the BD mantra was extras and interactivity don't matter only the movie?
P*ssing in the wind but at least I can try.
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