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67.188.14.78
The fallout, in the last few days, of the latest HD nuclear exchange has been illuminating. A perusal of the latest posts at AVS tells an interesting story...
One format to rule them all. HD-DVDers vow to never purchase BluRay hardware OR software.
BluRayers smugly insist they knew all along that HD-DVD would fail.
This is the new economic-ideological warfare.
The desire to be on the winning side, coupled with the desire to be "right" at all costs reflects a narcissistic trend in society... where it's better to "win" than to be satisfied.
Whether "Warn-A-Brother's" (sic) decision is the final blow or not... Why do we care?
We can either buy a product because it meets our needs/expectations, or we don't buy it. It's that simple.
This format war was fought in people's minds... not in their living rooms.
Regards,
SF
Follow Ups:
I have never understood any of this discussion about the merit of different formats. I just did the back room for $300! Picked up the $98 Toshiba A2 at wally world and $200 demo SONY S1 at best lie. So what gives? I bet most of the inmates here have spent more on some cable. I really DONT care about dead formats I have a lot of old betas, 3 1/2 floppies, cassettes and laserdisks laying around. Am I crying about it?????? N00000000000000000000000000. Who cares! At least I didnt buy into the digital VHS thingey. (but of course I didnt have a big screen then either) Just enjoy - this is a hobby - it is supposed to be fun.
Cheers!
I bought a Toshiba X1 HD DVD player months ago and have accumulated about 80 movies since then. Replaced the X1 with an X2 and am even happier. I'm THRILLED with how movies on HD DVD look and sound. I chose HD over BD because I don't much like bully-Sony after THREE copies of a damned-expensive ($2500) Sony computer monitor failed, the last one out of warranty.
However, over a week ago I started looking for the Samsung 5000 dual-format player. Haven't found one yet, but it's ordered. Meanwhile I've bought about a half-dozen BDs...movies that I love...and will buy more. But I'm still buying new HD DVDs and, I suppose, I'll buy HDs rather than BDs of double-released movies.
MAYBE BD has 'won', but soon I'll be able to play them all.
And I agree with the postists who write that people want discs in hand rather than downloaded copies on harddrives. How many of us have backups of their harddrive contents? I do and create a new one every few weeks. Remember, boys and girls, there are only TWO kinds of harddrives--those that have failed and those that will.
.
-------------------------------------------------------
Tin-eared audiofool and very parttime fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
The big mistake was Microsoft not making the HD DVD drive a standard part of the XBOX360.
Too bad; I was hoping they'd survive until dual format players became the norm. I've seen two announcements of inexpensive reference designs for dual format player chipsets. LG has a dual format computer drive that's cheaper than a Bluray only drive, which really tempted me until I decided to wait for one that writes as well (or a really good deal on standalone player).
HD DVD could still get a foot in the door if they got the writable discs onto the market much cheaper than the Bluray blanks. We'll need something to burn backups of the Bluray movies we rent.
I have a (hypocrate-liberal*) friend who copies every DVD he rents. He too is a thief.* Oh...that's redundant, isn't it!
-------------------------------------------------------
Tin-eared audiofool and very parttime fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
"So what. You knew this could happen. For less than $200 we'll get our money's worth." Of course that was my philosophy going in, and I know I'll get my money's worth. I already prefer my Toshiba HD DVD player as a DVD player to my older Oppo one. I don't want to buy a BD player until a standard is finalized. Before then strikes me as being premature. So I can enjoy a lot of HD media for quite some months (and years for the few discs I may own) while I wait to see which format really wins. I really believe it will be BD, and when a standard is agreed to I will puchase a first-class machine to add to my present one. At some point, if BD prevails, there may be a lot of HD DVD material on the market at very low prices, and it could be nice to have a player for it as well.
Joe
Whats really in peoples minds is getting stuck with a bunch of pricey diskc that cant be played. Just like Beta vs. VHS, everyone knows that eventually one or the other will become the only standard. I, for one, will not buy either until this war has settled, and only then will I get into the HD side of DVDs.
Half of the people are moping,"Its the end of the world, were all going to die!", and the other half is, "Ha, Ha! Neaner! Neaner! Neaner!".
I'm staying away from them for a while.
Jack
It's alternately amusing and pathetic to read all this juvenalia.
My short term strategy is to enjoy what I have (A3) for the time being-it really is an excellent upconverting DVD player, and there isn't enough content available at present or announced to get me to buy a BD player. That could all change in 6 months or so, of course.
nt
I bought the PlayStation 3 only a couple months ago mainly for the games. But then curiosity got the best of me so I bought just a couple Blu-Ray discs to try out.....
I wonder how many others did exactly the same? Of course this was part of Sony's grand scheme and it appears to be working.
I don't know how any consumer, manufacturer or studio ever convinced themselves that a format with 20 gigs less capacity than a competing format was worth pursuing, but I hope we can put a stop to that idiocy right now.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
But for others, it went beyond that. It engaged their emotions... They wanted one side to win so badly... I wonder where those allegiances come from.
SF
......he just loved being the forum's head cheerleader and got all gushy over the blue pompoms and tunics. ;0)
AuPh
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Rumor has it that someone who believes in truth in advertising snapped this before Jazz Inmate was fully suited up! ;O)
If I had been an early, early adopter in one format and had paid a ton of money on hardware/software, I imagine I'd be pretty passionate about that one (1) format; especially if I thought that format was the technical equal or better than the other format.
I'm a firm believer that one format is technically superior to the other format but plenty of other people are in (sometimes passionate) disagreement.
it also seems Warner's decision was based more on sales than the technical merits of either format. The storage/bandwidth advantages only mattered to the select few who knew about it and cared about it; i.e. a tiny minority of early adopters.
They picked the side they thought would end the war the fastest, so HD could progress, and they could make more money by selling their catalog titles to us again. If sales were reversed, of if they thought they could end the war faster by going HD DVD exclusive, they probably would have. Specs had little to do with it.
Jack
As I've said before, HD DVD did everything wrong here in Australia by doing the exact opposite of what they did right in the US. They released second, they kept player prices high, almost as high as BD, they kept a low profile on demos in stores. Basically they were close to invisible. BD here did the opposite. I wonder in how many other countries the HD DVD group followed their strategy here rather than their strategy in the US.
The film studios would definitely have been considering international sales as well as US sales.
Prior to the Warners announcement, HD DVD hadn't lost the war in the US but they hadn't won it. I think they had lost it here in Australia and I suspect they may have lost it in a number of other countries as well. The US is a big market but they couldn't win the war if they only won that one market.
If things are considered at an international level rather than a US level, I wonder whether what happened was really that HD DVD lost the war rather than Sony winning it. They may well have made the mistake of putting all of their eggs in one basket when there was a second basket that was bigger and they totally blew it there.
David Aiken
Warner brass indicated that a window of opportunity would close if action wasn't taken to get behind ONE format and run with it. Choosing BD had to do with sales but also with the ability to compete with future downloadable HD technologies, where issues like optical capacity are critical. There were many reasons Warner made the choice it did.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
It's going to be tough enough with one HD media format vs. DVD.
> > > "Format war needed to end; we didn't need a repeat of SACD vs. DVD-A" < < <
Apples and orangutans. No offense oscar, but comparing the audio and video format wars is a bit ridiculous because the needs of the consumer are entirely different in both instances. There never was anywhere near as much interest, much less demand, for high definition audio as there already is for high definition video delivery.
Note: It's arguable that the real audio war was between both higher definition formats (SACD & DVD-A) in conjunction with redbook CD versus file sharing (originally Napster) and other downloaded music delivery systems in a super convenient form; redbook CD had already been on decline for several years.
The video 'battlefield' is completely different because large scale appreciation of high definition is really just getting under way due in part to the rapid introduction of inexpensive wide-screen televisions that support high resolutions; bigger screens and higher resolution is the name of the game here, where it wasn't that clear cut for audio. High definition appreciation has grown steadily over the past 5 or 6 years, but even with all of this growth, technically, it's still a niche market.
That all changes with the mandated analog/digital changeover next January. I suspect that most folks transitioning now from analog to digital are moving up from 480P to 720P & 1080I (with 1080P starting to kick in as an interest in larger flat screen sets as prices come down). There'll have to be programming which can match those higher resolutions, not only over the air, but in some sort of easy to set-up storage device already familiar to consumers.
That's where HD-DVD & Blu-ray fitted in, and unlike high resolution audio there will likely be strong consumer interest in a collectible high definition format as long as disc prices are in the same ballpark as current DVD prices.
Yes, the format war needed to end and it would've been nice if there had only been one format from the outset, but once the competition was fully under way there were other considerations, such as pricing, movie selection and consumer trust issues. While my viewpoint is probably in the minority, I believe that there is still room for both formats, but not on B&M retailer's shelves (which is the real reason that continuing the format war jeopardized future sales, at least from the B&M retailer perspective).
Nevertheless, the basic problem with Warner opting out now is bad timing. If Warner wanted to end the war they could've dropped HD-DVD last summer and fewer folks would've felt like they were being stabbed in the back after their joyous holiday purchases, but by Warner's CEO waiting to announce the Studio's decision until many thousands of units were sold in competitive holiday fire sales they've alienated a lot of folks which they will now seek as Blu-ray customers and which will be dearly needed during the coming months.
Another sad aspect of the format war that hasn't been discussed is that had the competition lasted long enough for dual format players to drop in price the 'battlefield' may very well have changed for the better. Also, if B&M stores couldn't find shelf space to carry two formats (which was a very real long term concern), then internet discounters would probably have been glad to fill the void.
In fact, in many cases it might be easier to find new releases from both formats on-line! I suspect that internet discount vendors, such as Deep Discount, who currently offer free shipping and big discount deals would have no difficulty taking up the slack if brick and mortar retailers were unable or unwilling to carry one or both formats.
Warner's delay in dropping of HD-DVD may have actually benefited local retailers' bottom lines in the short term, but not if lots of folks demand refunds after reeling from Warner's sucker punch of leaving an orphan on their doorstep as a very special after-holiday present.
The reality is that many folks probably won't take their new HD-DVD players back, hoping that there will be enough HD titles issued to justify their purchases. Of course these are great up-converting players as well, but if they're that good then keeping them for upscaling purposes might be seen by the wary consumer as a justification for NOT purchasing the more expensive Blu-ray technology. Food for thought.
At any rate, I'm satisfied with my HD-DVD player in the near term (having purchased mine last summer) and don't require another format. Sooner or later I'll either purchase a dual format player (which will cover my existing HD titles with back-up for a long time) or an up-to-date Blu-ray unit, but in the meantime, I'm not in any rush.
AuPh
Glad it's sooner rather than later.
Sorry 'bout you folks with HD-DVD players though, or folks that shelled out for combo players. This is why I'm NOT an early adapter.
Until Universal says "uncle" I don't consider it over. But at least folks can now adopt Blu-ray with confidence.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
that suggests Paramount is about to use a 'get out' clause in it's deal with the HD DVD camp and swap back to BD. That would leave Universal so isolated that it would have to make them seriously consider crying 'uncle' and it may not even make much difference if they didn't. No player manufacturer is going to cover costs making a specialty player for one studio and once Toshiba stop manufacture and the remaining HD DVD player stock gets sold, that would leave Universal really in the lurch. Their choices would be to go BD or drop hi def and stick with ordinary DVD. They certainly aren't going to recover their setup costs for HD DVD by continuing to release HD DVDs for a very small number of players.
David Aiken
.
But I have a lot of what I want (standard definition).
Warner's defection will likely force Paramount's and Universal's hands.
I have no love for Sony, and no hatred... Isn't it odd that some individuals get emotionally involved in the machinations of corporate entities?
Even though there is no stake beyond a few hundred dollars of discretionary income?
As Clark Johnsen would say: "Scots Wha-Hey!" (nt)
Regards,
SF
SF Janitor ,
You cry , and whine , and post oceans of your tears , whenever I say a bad word about your beloved Sony and your dead SACD format .
LOL
The AA archives are filled with your tearful , crybaby posts .
LOL
ZS KEKL
You have nothing to contribute to any discussion.
You're just a sore loser... AGAIN.
Sour Grapes... That should be your moniker!
Silly boy.
SF
Thank you Abe. My honest sentiment too.Not owning either format yet, although interested in acquiring HD movies in *a* format eventually, I was highly annoyed we had the damned competing format wars again. (I'm old enough to remember the VHS/Beta battle.) And just because Blu Ray appeared to be technically superior didn't mean it would win.
So HD-DVD folks cancelled their CES booth which sounds like they are throwing in the towel. For once the better technology wins.
I think. ;-)
I have the Sony PS3 but only a few Blu-Ray discs. As luck would have it, it appears that Blu-Ray has won. I'm just glad that somebody has won. Now we can all get on with our lives and buy discs again!
In other words... Wait for Bill Gates to declare that physical media is obsolete.
Wait, he already did that (oops?).
Steve Jobs will (oops?).
The buying public wants hi-res media in hand for immediate watching.
Discs.
Regards,
SF
...HD-DVD may not be dead yet, and the hardware may be more user friendly, but there's only *really* room for one format at the kind of numbers that will make the movie industry happy. As for streaming HD movie content - pipelines aren't big enough yet.
Yet.
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