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The whole subject of jitter makes the hair stand up defensively with many people with subsequent accusations of snake oil, cannot hear it, imagination, ....
But jitter DOES exist and from what I am reading it is rather too prevalent in HDMI, something which will not worry 95% of users but can be of concern to obsessive nutters like me. A Google search on this subject yields some interesting reading. For some time the whole existence of jitter was denied, even at AES level, but we have moved forward and its importancve is now acknowledged.
So how can it be overcome?
One suggestion I understand could be in the pipeline, is to take the HDMI signal into a buffer package which strips off the audio and removes jitter allowing a nice clean digital out to go to a processor or receiver + a video only to go on to the monitor or wherever.
But maybe HDMI protocols will be further modified. Who knows.
Yet another reason to hold back investing in blu ray.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Follow Ups:
....until they iron out the issue of flat tires. Oh, I see there's a solution available now with 'run flats'. OK, we can drive cars now!
I wonder if the much higher resolution offered in blu-ray audio out weighs the 'jitter'. Better not take a chance on it until there's a definitive fix. ;-)
Well, you can have those run flat tyres on the latest BMW's too.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Run flats are a compromise at best. Maybe they'll get them right someday. Run flats pick up a lot of road noise and they don't wear very well.
But I still think that the higher resolution audio from Blu-ray must out weigh any jitter.
.... could be more important for opera, ballet etc. We shall see what eventuates.
But you describe run flat tyres well. In the BMW I had for a couple of days it did have unacceptable tyre noise and lacked the ride comfort/road handling poise compromise of the earlier tyred models. But I was highly impressed with the charged diesel engine - a real beauty which pulled with tremendous torque.
But we are way off topic!!! (but its fun)
Back on topic I went to a commercial theater earlier in the week to see the latest "Raiders" movie and came away unimpressed with the video & audio quality - the movie itself was ok. The home experience can now exceed that in the movie theater thanks to digital and HD (the home audio systems have been better for years despite lossy DD/DTS).
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Even though I'm stuck with my run flats (since there is no space anywhere for a spare tire), I'm still very impressed with how the car feels compared to others I have owned. As reliable as the Japanese cars have been for me, it will be very hard to ever go back now that I have experienced BMW. I have the small sedan with the inline 6, not the carnivorous V8!
I'm a little tired of the "Raiders" movies. I'm waiting for "Kung Fu Panda" to come out on Blu-ray. ;-)
Must plead guilty to owning a V8, (year 2000 540i) but handled reasonably I can get acceptable milage from a tankful. But, apart from unecessary capital outlay, the latest models do not tempt me with their run flat tyres and iDrive. No doubt I could get used to the iDrive but it would drive my beloved nuts.
I'm presently touring in Ireland (time to spare in a library) and have noticed just how popular BMWs are here - they are ideal for the narrow twisting "rock & roll" roads prevalent in the Emerald Isle. This place is AMAZING, with emphasis on the "MAZE" with unmarked roads all too common that even get the locals lost.
The hire car we have is a Mazda3 and I'm impressed at its roadholding and steering - into BMW territory. But sadly that is about all it has in common. The road noise is deafening and the short wheelbase gives anything but a smooth BMW like ride. But driving it around some of the twisty stuff is fun. BTW it is a manual and has air conditioning - not needed until today as the temperature has been struggling to get above 14C earlier even though it is supposed to be summer!!!
Enough of OT stuff on cars from me.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
on my X5, which has the carnivorous V-8 under the hood however, I just discovered tires that can practically do just about anything that I have intended to do with my X5. It is the Nokian WR "All-Weather Plus" tires that are made in Finland. While that may sound like a fancy name for all-seasons, there is an important distinction: these tires bear the severe service emblem, and at the same time carry a pro rata tread wear warranty of 80,000 km., which is quite handy if you live in a very harsh climate country like Canada. Ok…back to our normal programming.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
Interesting tire.
I'm running the factory Bridgestone run flats. They're not as bad as some folks have written on various internet sites.... but they're not great. Once they wear out, I'll look into other brands but the choices are somewhat limited for run flats.
I had a 2002 X5 3.0. It was fun yet practical. I'm now driving the 330xi (AWD) which understandably handles better and still somewhat practical but can't carry all the junk I buy at the hardware / lumber store. For that, I use my wife's SUV. ;-)
"Yet another reason to hold back investing in blu ray."
No offense, but I don't think I've read a more asinine reason to not invest in Blu-ray.
No offense, but I have not read a more asinine post for some time which adds little or nothing to either the good will on this board or to the subject of jitter in HDMI. To each his own prejudices and passions.
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
asinine: extremely or utterly foolish (ie, an asinine excuse)
That comment from your post was asinine, period. If you honestly believe that jitter on the HDMI output is a valid reason not to invest in Blu-ray, you've lost it.
To make matters worse, you've gone on to say, "...I went to a commercial theater earlier in the week to see the latest "Raiders" movie and came away unimpressed with the video & audio quality - the movie itself was ok. The home experience can now exceed that in the movie theater thanks to digital and HD (the home audio systems have been better for years despite lossy DD/DTS). " in another post.
Since you believe we shouldn't invest in Blu-ray, where the hell are we going to get HD from? Can't get it from DVD. Won't get it from tape. How about the over-compressed downloads that Microsoft wants to feed us? Maybe those 4Mb/s 720p downloads from Apple? Or how about the pixelized mess that's satellite and cable TV? Or maybe from the major networks, all of which inundate us with those hundreds of free movies each month OTA?
Thank you for your friendly response - sort of really makes for a nice tone here.
Down under we do get quite a lot of HD from FTA TV.
And if you care to read my original post I never said jitter was the only reason not to get into Blu Ray - something I might do at the ed of the year.
But please do not get your knickers in such a knot at anyuting negative re blu ray. Unless you consider it perfect that is.
Cheers
John
Sadly (or is it happily?) an incurable audio-video nutter with an indecent number of toys. Classical music forever!!!!
Sadly, it's with your own words. From your post:
"The whole subject of jitter makes the hair stand up defensively with many people with subsequent accusations of snake oil, cannot hear it, imagination, ....
But jitter DOES exist and from what I am reading it is rather too prevalent in HDMI, something which will not worry 95% of users but can be of concern to obsessive nutters like me. A Google search on this subject yields some interesting reading. For some time the whole existence of jitter was denied, even at AES level, but we have moved forward and its importancve is now acknowledged.
So how can it be overcome?
One suggestion I understand could be in the pipeline, is to take the HDMI signal into a buffer package which strips off the audio and removes jitter allowing a nice clean digital out to go to a processor or receiver + a video only to go on to the monitor or wherever.
But maybe HDMI protocols will be further modified. Who knows.
Yet another reason to hold back investing in blu ray."
Where is any other reason besides jitter mentioned? Nowhere. And "Yet another reason to hold back investing in blu ray." doesn't qualify, because you didn't list any of the others.
This is my last comment re: this issue. Do yourself a favor and just ignore my threads and comments: that's what I'll be doing with your "contributions" from this post forward.
...Don’t use HDMI is the simplest way I know to avoid any problems.
Smile
Sox
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