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In Reply to: RE: At any price point? posted by Kal Rubinson on June 19, 2009 at 14:19:59
I can't find any locally. That one seemed to be a good balance of price/performance.
Baba-Booey to you all!
Follow Ups:
...I'm not that satisfied with the sound. But it was dirt-cheap compared to the Pioneer 09....
If so, that is a problem for sure. Audio seems to work much better via HDMI for the lesser-priced players, I have been quite happy with it in general, never thought I would be.People say the Oppo BDP-83 has a half-decent analog section. But at $500, and I don't know of any cheaper for "good", that is somewhat out of the price range the OP wanted. Also, Denon is coming out very shortly with a $500 BDP that will be very close in features (and analog section) to the Oppo...presume it will street in the $400 ballpark. They will have another model that's $800 IIRC that's supposed to kick it up a notch. So it looks like $500 is the entry MSRP for a BDP with attention paid to the analog section.
Personally, at this point, I prefer NOT to pay for an analog section in a BDP, nor a multi-ch input analog section in an AVR/pre-pro. Because they cost a lot to be good, and they both have to be good to make it worthwhile. Whereas HDMI is cheap, keep the audio digital as long as possible...but give me a great AVR analog output section. I prefer to keep my analog source signals totally out of any digital processor box.
Edits: 06/23/09
Um... isn't an AVR a "digital processor box" ?
I've tried two different "analog" multichannel preamps both of which blew away my "digital" pre/pro for preamp stage performance. This is one reason I'd want to go with a source player w/ decent DACs in lieu of a new (expensive) HDMI-capable pre/pro whose MC preamp performance is not likely to match my current preamp.
It appears you are misinterpreting his comments.
Anyway, to clarify: I do not feed any analog source outputs into my AVR pre-pro. When I opened it up to have a look, it looks a helluva lot more like a computer than a "stereo". Not surprising. There are much better pre-pros of course, and those with some decent analog design, so then I wouldn't mind so much. But like many people here, I had an analog pre already, so I keep like with like signal-wise.
As far as this topic is concerned, my point was that keeping digital source material digital as long as possible throughout the reproduction chain seems a good idea to me. Easier and so convenient too with BDP output.
Seems to me feeding the MC analog preamp via the Blu-ray player's analog outputs is more "direct" than routing HDMI from the player to a pre/pro, then converting to analog, and then routing the analog outputs through the MC analog preamp (plus you will be "tainting" the sound with the "digital processor box's preamp stage).
Yes, of course! That's why I said I don't mind paying for GOOD analog output circuitry in the pre-pro. But "resented" paying for good analog output circuitry in the BDP, and for corresponding good analog input circuitry in the pre-pro...not needed with HDMI. Besides, most AVRs (what my pre-pro is) probably convert analog inputs back to digital anyway, since all the volume control circuitry etc. is digital. And...I want to use worthwhile things (IMO) like Audyssey...makes a big diff with movies I think...so might as well just leave digital sources' signals as digital until the final output stage. Bass management isn't nearly as good or flexible with BDP analog ouput...this should be enough reason to stay digital if you're picky. You may not like the idea, but when you get used to it, the HDMI works pretty well (the connectors are unnecessarily flimsy IMO) and is convenient, besides being overall quite flexible.I'm not sure what you mean in your second statement, but my digital pre does not really interface with my analog pre. Digital sources (BDP, DVDP, both HDMI, Ethernet music) go into digital pre, analog sources (tuner, tape, phono, CDP analog outputs and stereo DACs) go into analog pre. The L/R outputs of each pre go into one (front/stereo) amp (input used is selectable), the surround channels go into other amps.
If I had a really good modern pre-pro, I'd still use the HDMI BDP output. No reason not to from what I've seen (heard). For both music and video.
Edits: 06/29/09
It is mostly true that BDPs with multi-ch analog outputs cost more. This is reasonable even if you just consider the needed extra parts and complication (compared to just HDMI output). Then refine that to fairly GOOD multi-ch analog outputs, and the price creeps up even more, probably close to $500 like for the Oppo BDP-83 (which has numerous other features too). And a lot more $$ for very good, as it usually goes.
Yes, if you don't have an HDMI-capable audio processor, the Sony S550 would not be a bad choice for entering the format. Just a short time ago they could be had for ~$250 or so on clearance. Try Panasonic for now if price is a concern, or just want to get a taste. You do not necessarily have to use the lossless audio formats right away, it's the video that's usually the big motivation, and after that you will be spurred to further evaluation of the direction you want to go.
Anyway, I feel your pain. I broke down for an HDMI-capable processor. Frankly, the multi-ch outputs of the BDPs I heard sounded worse than the HDMI output, probably better models available now. And lip-sync (movies) becomes more "complicated" with analog outs...something that even a tiny bit of it really annoys me, maybe not others that much...easily handled in the digital domain. As far as I'm concerned, the multi-ch analog outputs are best left to music, not movie discs.
Even the slightest misfire would annoy me to no end as well. Thanks for pointing that out.
Baba-Booey to you all!
Don't be frightened off because of that, many people get by just fine using the mch analog outputs for movie sound. It's just that the sync is pretty much "automatic" when both video and audio are HDMI.One other thing that is usually more convenient/flexible when not handled at the player is bass management. BM is done at the player when mch analog outputs are used.
I'm in Canada. Very often (almost always) new models are introduced in the U.S. some months before here. The replaced models are often redirected up here and are available "cheap" for some months longer. For instance, the S550 (with mch analog outs) is commonly available here now for ~US$225, and IMO that is a good first choice since it should integrate with just about any system. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some S550s hanging around in the U.S. for an even better price.
Edits: 06/20/09
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