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I have a standard 2 ch stereo system, check my profile on AA.
However, I am in that situation of only having one room in our rectangular room (sounds ok).
So I am getting your advice for setting up a
46" TV
center and back channels (probably small units)
using my stereo speakers as mains
using my old sub (12 inch)
The wire was already there (16 G ofc copper Monster cable flat line), using some old lousy speakers (tore them out). So the installer can use that.
Probably need an AV receiver (would like pass through for stereo system).
Should I spend more than $300-400 for a receiver?
And what speakers do you guys use?
We are thinking maybe a box center and small ceiling back channels.
That's all I know, don't criticize but tell me what else should I ask?
Follow Ups:
Use your DVD player to drive rear amps and sub. Get a used stereo amp for rears if you need to (I got a Parasound HCA 1500A or something for <$200 on Craigslist). Feed the front 2 through your good system. That's what I'm doing to have a pretty great movie sound while having a no-compromise (other than budget) stereo system.
I have the Pioneer DV 47 Ai, what do you mean drive the rears and sub?
excerpt about the unit from AVreview.com:
"...Looking at the back of the player, you will notice quite a few enticing connections for various audio/video applications. The back panel is intuitively laid out, with a slew of gold-plated RCA connectors. A rarity for players of this caliber, the DV-47Ai has a removable EIC power cord allowing philes to tweak with obscenely expensive aftermarket power cables. Video outputs include two S-video, one composite video and two component video connectors. Audio outputs include one optical digital, one coaxial digital, one analog set of RCAs, a six-channel analog output and a digital I-link connection. The optical and coaxial outputs are the most common connections to your receiver or digital processor for Dolby Digital movies or DTS music. For the all-important 5.1 audio playback, it provides six analog outputs or the I-link connector. The single I-link cable is nice, since it is much easier to hook up than the cumbersome six cables. If you have beefy audiophile-grade interconnects for your 5.1 audio connections, good luck labeling and feeding all those thick cables around your stereo rack. The drawback of I-link is that the technology is new and you will need to buy a receiver that supports the I-link connectors, like the Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi. The only notable connection missing is a DVI or HDMI output for best connection to today’s newer digital video monitors, such as Plasma, LCD and many others..."
end of excerpt.
The sub is powered. The rears will be passive.
I have a Hafler XL 280 2 ch amp which can easily power any possible speakers #140 w/ch @ 8 ohms, 220 plus @ 4 ohms#. It sounds somewhat hard for full range stereo, so I prefer my other amps for music, although it has great control.
Assuming you have interconnects, etc. It looks like you should use the Hafler for the rear speakers. That amp would go between the Pioneer player and the rear speakers (whether you have long ICs or long speaker cables would determine where you put your amp if you don't want to buy new cables). The Pioneer 6 analog outs: front to your stereo pre, rear to the Hafler, sub to sub and center to nothing. You have to set up the Pioneer menu to say no center, etc. Then you could only listen to the discs from that player in 4.1 surround sound, not TV, etc. (unless the pioneer has a digital input).
How about upgrading the universal player by using this box?
thanks to jedrider, who is also trying to figure out all this stuff at the moment on this board.
I don't see how that would help you since your player does not have HDMI output I believe. I also don't know what they mean by amplifier. Maybe a pre-amp with volume control?
In my system the Oppo does enable me to turn the volume down from the reference level that I have set up, but there are rare movies that I cannot turn up loud enough without re-adjusting all of my levels. My rear amp does have gain knobs which gives me more flexibility, but even without that, I could just match my front and sub to the rears with my front pre amp and sub gain control.
I think the main purpose of that box is to connect a new blu ray player to an old HT processor with coax digital input. But your Pioneer does that already. I don't know whether your player has a volume control.
Here is a back panel shot of a dv 47 ai, so you are correct. However, I do want to consider a center, since the installer is doing his work anyway and I am thinking to do it all at once.
folks say you need a high end center, how high?
We don't really watch movies that much, but like music and concert videos and may do more in the future.
also, another poster suggested a box which can handle hdmi with simple wiring. seemed to be a great idea.
I've never heard a system with a center for long, so can't say much about that. I've read that people say that it's best if it matches your front speakers sonically.
in this thread. The ambery website has many other boxes to connect this or that and even convert the Pioneer to HDMI.
I have older Whatmough 303's and something that was called Innovative Audio powered sub table (smaller model).
You saw it in the 2 minutes before the post was deleted. I just didn't like the way the post sounded, so I axed it.
Anyway, those your speakers? Never heard them, but I just love the veneer color and design.
You are very knowledgeable.
I know from reading these posts.
What do you think about sbrians' approach of 4.1 setup?
There are many ways to get surround integrated into a 2-channel system -- some good, some not so good. Re: his way (from "my" understanding of what he's suggesting), how do you control the volume of the rear speakers if the amp that's driving them gets its signal from a DVD/Blu-ray player? If it has a digital volume control, that would work, but that wouldn't be a route that I would take unless I was desperate for surround and needed a quick fix.
Do you mind used? There's a Yamaha RX-V795 receiver at videogon.com for $55 + shipping. It's cosmetically flawed (no picture though), but it has 6 preamp outputs for surround (L, R, C, RS, LS and LFE/.1). The receiver's speaker outputs could power your L/R Surround speakers (and Center speaker, should you want more than 4.1) and you could send the line level L/R channels to your current 2-channel setup. It doesn't handle the newer audio codecs of Blu-ray (DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD), but those codecs have either DTS Surround and/or Dolby Digital for "backup" on the disc.
Another thing: are the subs you have part of your 2-channel setup (subs feed the Mains) or are they separate? If they're part of your 2-channel setup, then you won't have an LFE/.1 channel unless you change this or add another sub.
I can recommend used stuff in the $$ - $$$$ range or new stuff in the $$$ - $$$$ range. But without a budget to work with, I'm just guessing at options that might/might not be OK for you.
Budget is under $2000 maybe including TV.
Do you mind used?
There's a Yamaha RX-V795 receiver at videogon.com for $55 + shipping. It's cosmetically flawed (no picture though), but it has 6 preamp outputs for surround (L, R, C, RS, LS and LFE/.1).
(good, will check it out)
The receiver's speaker outputs could power your L/R Surround speakers (and Center speaker, should you want more than 4.1) and
(understand)
you could send the line level L/R channels to your current 2-channel setup.
(Yamaha line level outputs?)
It doesn't handle the newer audio codecs of Blu-ray (DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD), but those codecs have either DTS Surround and/or Dolby Digital for "backup" on the disc.
(how would this for instance integrate into an Oppo 93?)
Another thing: are the subs you have part of your 2-channel setup (subs feed the Mains) or are they separate? If they're part of your 2-channel setup, then you won't have an LFE/.1 channel unless you change this or add another sub.
(ok, now it's disconnected, due to wiring issue, but before it was using amp to speaker wire to usual powered sub, then speaker wire to L-R)
If it's easier, I will email you. I told you I am a dummy.
"(Yamaha line level outputs?)"
Well, preamp level outputs is probably a better description. The receiver, via its speaker connections, will power your LS, RS and, if you get one, C speakers. If you don't get a C speaker, your DVD/Blu-ray player can be given this info and put the C info into the L and R channels. The L and R speaker outputs would not be hooked up on the receiver. The way you would get the L and R channels to play would be to send these two channels, via the preamp outputs on the receiver, to a line level input (an unused L/R RCA input) on your 2-channel gear.
When using the DVD/Blu-ray player, you simply select the input on your 2-channel gear that corresponds to the L/R feed from the receiver. This way, the total system volume, when watching a movie, would be controlled by the receiver's volume knob. The volume control on your 2-channel gear will need to be set at a certain level when you want to watch a movie (when there's no movie, just twist away). The easiest way to do it is to just turn the volume knob on your 2-channel gear to where you normally listen to music -- this will now be your "movie" watching setting. In order to have the proper volume coming from all of the speakers, you will calibrate the system for equal SPL from the speakers using an SPL meter and a calibration disc (don't worry, as none of this will affect your 2-channel listening).
"(how would this for instance integrate into an Oppo 93?)"
Well, one way to do it is to feed the oppo's multichannel analog out puts to the receiver's multichannel analog in puts. What channels get fed to the receiver will depend on how many speakers you end up with. For the ones you don't have (let's just say a C, SBL and SBR -- that's what oppo calls them), the oppo will be told to fold them into the appropriate channels.
Is the oppo BDP-93 part of the $2k?
If yes, why oppo?
Do you have a television picked out or are you still looking?
If you're still looking, is there a reason for 46"?
cost is arbitrary, we just paid off taxes and loans, since it took months to sell our old home, and renovate the new.
I am guessing.
Oppo 93 is often recommended as upgrade universal player and blu ray. My Pioneer DV 47 Ai, works great still, sounds at least good to very good on redbook and DVD, not stellar but inoffensive on SACD. I see that it is from 2003-4 model run, older hookup.
Need TV, I have a person who wants to help, but he had surgery and we may delay a month.
46" is for the room size and saves money.
The room is my stereo family room, sounds at least decent. Most of the evenings, my teen is practicing her violin there. Little TV time. Good!
If you want to keep the Home Theater speakers separate from the 2-channel system, newegg has a sale/coupon code for a Klipsch 5.1 speaker system (but not for large rooms) that you may be interested in -- good thru Sunday 3/25.
The sub is powered by its own 100 watt amp.
Free shipping and with the $100 coupon code its
thanks for helping me out, very good deal seemingly.
one friend has Klipsch, I haven't ever heard them at all since the K Horn days.
I was very tempted, then looking at the piano black, size etc., did not think my wife would approve.
Just wondering, having never really experienced it! I will note that in Movie Theaters (recently built, too) with probably good sound systems, I don't find the rear or side channels of any benefit whatsoever IMHO!
In the context of being at home, maybe the equation changes somewhat, not having a wall-to-wall screen in front of you.
For any movie with action, it's an essential part of the movie I think. The car/bullet/train or whatever coming from or going to behind you. For a drama or somthing, it's less needed. It depends on the movie. I think that's because few movies are done fully professionally. If done well, which is rare, in a scene say in a street, sounds come from all directions as in life and you need surround to get that kind of sound even without action/effects. But few movies are that realistically/carefully done I think. Years ago I tried surround on some TV shows and they were pretty bogus, so I watch TV shows in stereo.
not really...but I am researching it.
Maybe should stick with front only, but I am always fascinated with claims by such audiophiles and reviewers as Kal Rubinson, Joe Murphy Jr and others on SACD and Music about the benefits of surround for classical music and videos.
your player does play sacd & dvd audio.if you want to use that feature you have to use the analog outs.try to find a used mch rec with hdmi & mch analog in.hdmi on receivers was introduced in 2005. if you start there you will find both inputs.then buy a cheap bd player an use that too. look at onkyo denon or pioneer on ebay.new they were not cheap
dts-cds dvd-audio &mch sacds & blu-ray concerts & speaker amp sound system tweaks rule
it sounds like you want to use the 1 link on the pioneer.if the player has the cord maybe you can find the pioneer mch amp.I wonder if the player supports sacd & dvd audio. I bet it does.my about me page has what you want to do.
I dont know anything about your amp so I dont know if i will work with a mch amp. I use intigrated amps with the mch amps.use the pre outs on mch to unused cd or tape inputs on the stereo amps. I have a denon amp that has the link too. but no denon player so I use the analog connectors. well good luck with home theather
dts-cds dvd-audio &mch sacds & blu-ray concerts & speaker amp sound system tweaks rule
First of all, top quality HDTV's are dirt cheap. Go for a larger screen if you can cram it in!
Second, the center channel is CRITICAL for movies. Something like 90% of sound comes from it. Do not scrimp on the center channel. Make the quality as high, and the size as large as you can.
Third, I'd recommend an HK receiver, and when you have saved some bucks, get a home theater multi-channel amp.
We'll have to agree to disagree about global warming until the next global cooling scare comes along
1. Ditch the Kandy because it probably doesn't have a PROCESSOR loop.
2. Get a used AVR instead -- 5.1 and 7.1 are cheap used.
3. Keep the Kandy, get an AVR, use it in two-channel mode feeding the Kandy.
You are giving me choices, right?
The Kandy is about my level, works very well, reliable (lousy remote), sound is very matched to my speakers, and phono for my set up is plenty adequate, even very good.
So you tell me 3, right? But how would I run the AV setup in 2 channel?
I used to just hook up my old CRT TV 32 in Panny and run it through my 2 channel.
1. Have two volume controls in the path.
2. DVD players often have two-channel out, so no problem there.
3. TVs, usually just have optical out, so it appears that would have to go into an AVR or decoder, giving you two volume controls, which is not so desirable. I guess that is what 'processor' loops are for.
"Probably need an AV receiver (would like pass through for stereo system)."
It is the stereo system that has the passthrough for the front L/R channels. Of course, that means you need an AVR with preamp level outputs and I doubt you will find that for $3-400.
Kal
You can output analog 2 channel from many BluRay and DVD players, so you likely will be able to use your 2 channel stereo. If your stereo input is a passive input,all the better, so you'll be able to control volume with your player's remote.
Thanks, Kal. I have no experience doing more than 2 channel. Lots of experiences with that.
So, help me again. I need an AVR with pass through, so that my existing system "passes through" the other unit, right?
I am tempted to go to AudiogoN and get an older receiver.
Reason no budget (see Mr Murphy Jr's comment), because of my lack of knowledge and not being sure what budget yet.
"So, help me again. I need an AVR with pass through, so that my existing system "passes through" the other unit, right?"
You need an AVR with line-level l/R outputs, so that you can connect them to the pass-through inputs on the stereo preamp.
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