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In Reply to: RE: "I don't really want a plasma tv" posted by oldmkvi on July 08, 2013 at 19:27:35
Thanks for all the responses...however, no real help so far.
Why not a plasma? Well, because of issues of burn-in, and pixels blowing out over time (sometimes a very short time). These have always been issues with plasma TV's, have they not? If these are no longer issues anymore, I ask why not? Is there some magic new way that plasmas are made, that got invented since 2010?
I already said I know the overall picture quality, and especially the black level, are superior with a plasma tv. But I also said I did not want one, and asked specifically for help with what I do want. I guess that's asking for too much.
To me right now, paying $500 more IS actually a big deal. Money is an issue. I don't have $5,000 of disposable income per month like many of you...
How much could I resell that $1200 tv that I liked for, say in just 2 years, let alone 5? The answer is about $400 max in 2 years, and $250 in 5 years. That's quite a percentage loss. I've already lost many, many, many times this in the stock market...and am not willing to spend more money than I absolutely have to, and also not willing to lose any more money than I have to.
If I had a high degree of income, well I would just buy everything I saw, that I liked. I would have a 4k tv in every room of my mansion, and about $500k worth of highend audio bling in each of those rooms also.
At this point though, I would have to strike enough oil to sell a few hundred barrels a day to support such gluttony, and it's just not happened yet.
Perhaps since $500 is nothing to all of you, you would like to take up a collection for me?
Follow Ups:
My buddy had a very expensive HT setup with a Plasma tv. It had a great picture. IN A PITCH BLACK ROOM. Any light at all and the PQ went way down.
I ended up with a 60" Samsung from Costco and love it. If you adjust it carefully it has a spectacular pic. And zero isues with burn in which has not magically gone away with the current generation of Plasmas'.
If I wanted a smaller set for say a bedroom or a condo and I ONLY watched at night I'd consider a plasma.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Dr. Greg House
Well it's good to see one or two people who chose an LCD. After a bit more research, I decided to try the Samsung F6300. It turns out there is only one version of the panel, rather than a good one and a cheap one (as with my previous experience with Samsung).
It won't arrive for a few more days. I will post my opinion and the settings after I give it a go.
Get what you want, but don't trash Plasma. As you have read, owners have nothing but good things to say.
Wait, save, maybe you can do better.
One would think if plasma pixels were subject to "blowing out" there'd be a brazillion posts about it over at AVS.FTR, my Panny is a 2011, 65", base model, not one of the higher end ones. At Best Buy's site, they have a base model, 49.9" set, for $699, 1080P Plasma. Altho you weren't specific about your budget, I'm guessing this one falls in it. It's also no frills. Plus, 1080P. I'm sure you'll find a reason to snipe at this recommendation, but feel free to leave out the "blowing out of pixels" bs.
Edit - The set I referenced has a wee bit of Smarts built into it. If you want a totally dumb set, the 720p 49.9" right above it is $499.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Edits: 07/10/13
Everyone Except the OP is onboard!
That's funny because I have read many complaints about plasma sets blowing out pixels over the years, and how warranties didn't cover it unless there were more than 10 pixels blown, even if most of them were near the center of the picture.
I am not a teenager here who is new to this. I've been around a long time.
I watch a lot of news and business news programming, and besides, plasma sets put out more heat and use more energy. I am seeing more than good enough shadow detail in this cheap 5000 series LED tv now, that to me it's not worth buying a plasma for similar money. It is not remotely warm after hours of use, either.
As for the suggestion that I should just buy a 720p set because I am on a budget...I mean get the blank over yourself! Just go watch tv or do whatever it is you do, because a comment like that is not welcome in this thread.
If I were going to just buy a dedicated movie-only set, and didn't mind burning in the middle part with the 2.35:1 material...and had no intention of ever reselling it again, and had no intention of ever replacing my front projector in my home theater at some point...then I would have a similar amount of disposable income that many of you have...and I would just blow a few grand on a 70 inch or larger plasma tv...but that's not what I want to do. As I hinted at in my initial post, I will be buying a new front projector for that use, at some point in the future, but not now.
I'm sorry if I'm not onboard all of your plasma bandwagon. I guess I will need to post on some other website to get opinions between the two sets I listed in my first post, along with what they cost (which is the implied budget)...for those of you who wouldn't even read anything other than the subject header of my first post.
Being a fanboy of something such as a plasma tv design, does not make you an expert on everything. What does it make you? Use your imagination, if you can...
Thanks for the input, but it's not helping. Rather some of it is backhandedly insulting...so I hope you enjoy some of that in return.
Audio Video Science forum's discussion boreds will have a wealth of info for you on the sets you asked about. There'll be dedicated threads on just about any set that's marketed with input from industry professionals including recommended settings to properly dial in the set.
FTR, I think the 1080p Panny 49.9" at $699 is a killer deal. I don't know of anyone who has a burn in problem with their newer plasmas. I DO know of people who have issues with motion flicker with *very good* LCDs. If yer even remotely interested in the Panny I recommended, find the thread dedicated to it, if there's a systemic problem you can be sure it'll be mentioned. I wish my bro n law had done that basic research on the 42" Toshiba LCD he bought. He would have found out about the "clouding" issues and crappy black levels that he has.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
I had thought of trying AVS forum, but I'm not yet a member, so thought I would try here first.
So you're not concerned about 2.35:1 aspect material burning in that part of your set?
Interesting that you are at least getting into a more technical description. What does "clouding" look like?
Imagine a pristine outdoor scene, awash in sunlight, with part of the picture (in his case, the middle of the screen) clouded over. Hard to explain, Very evident tho in scenes with a lot of whites.
You probably know this but you don't have to be a member of AVS to peruse their discussion boreds.
Re - Burn in.
Let me be perfectly clear on this, we watch mostly TV, so our Panny's screen is filled completely up. However, we watch rented or owned DVDs and BRD's maybe 3 times a week (6 hrs) on average and there are, on almost all of the films, black bars on top. We've been doing this for 2.5 years this month, so that's about 750-800 hours (6hours x 52weeks x 2.5 years) of black bars. There is absolutely zero burn in. None, nada, zilch. The only issue I know of with plasma, these days at least, is reflections on the screen in well lit rooms. Ours is in a pseudo media room, not an issue even with ceiling cans turn up all the way. Reflections would be an issue in our living room (floor to ceiling windoze on our north wall), that's why we have the Sony in there.
One last note, skin tones are realistic on plasmas, much better than on our Sony or friends' LCD/LEDs.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Skin tones haven't been a problem with the LED 40 incher I'm about to send back. I also found the "skin tone" adjustment to work perfectly, unlike a lot who have criticized it. If skin tones ever look unnaturally pale, adding a bit of that fixes it; almost makes it look like the over ripe "sony look" re flesh tones. The reds even look over ripe and one dimensional on the 55 and 65 inch "4k" displays I have seen. The detail is mind-blowing, though. 4k is the future, where 3D may be yet another fad that has begun to fade.
So far (besides the obvious problem with the motion color artifacts on black subjects)...the only thing I (realistically) wish this 5000 tv (that I'm returning) had, is a finer increment to the adjustment of the color temperature. I suspect no tv has this, unless it's available via a service menu.
I have browsed the avs forum many times. Never said you had to be a member to browse, not sure where you got the idea that I thought you had to be a member to browse. But I need to join it so I can post my own question about the two TV's I mention in my initial post of this thread.
I'm leaning toward the Samsung 6300; it does look very good for the money. The backlight technique looks a lot more even than on this 5000 series, and also the pixels seem a lot sharper and higher in contrast...as if the transparent layer of the panel is clearer. It basically looks like the pixels are on the surface, similar to what a good plasma tv looks like (almost like the old Pioneer Elite plasmas, but not quite). Of course it does get a bit dimmer off axis, where a typical plasma tv does not.
I have two plasma t.v.s a 42" Philips and a 50" Panny and none of them have any problems regarding pixels blowing up and on top of that both of them have been troubled free for the last 7 years.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
Edits: 07/14/13
Obvious motion artifacts even with motion flow (and its Soap Opera-ish image) turned on. It's tolerable for our 3 hour watching party at his house ever other Sunday but I'd never own it under ANY circumstance, even with its great color and contrast. But hey, if those two issues aren't deal breakers for you, go for it. But keep in mind, the issues are real, observable by ANY eye, and are well documented. The issues you bring up for plasmas are not in any way shape or form relevant for current (or near current) sets from the big (LG, Panny, Samsung) plasma manufacturers.
--------------------------
"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
How old is the plasma you own? If it's not new, then the issues I describe do apply to it.Why the overbearing hostility here? And what motion artifacts are you observing after watching a soap opera for 3 hours? You say it's well documented...how about you just tell me in your own words what specific motion artifacts you are seeing?
I've looked at a lot of sets lately, not seen any motion artifacts of any kind, other than with the one I'm sending back.
In any case your buddy wasted $2k just so he could have a "3D" 55 inch tv...that's his fault, not mine. The tv I'm considering is just over 1/3 the price of the 6400 series, yet the picture quality is equal or superior. Yawn...
Edits: 07/15/13
I could use more technical terms but it's so visible I think jerky motion is the correct description. It's apparent either in "normal" mode or when he uses Motion Flow. I would have said nothing, except you mentioned the 6300 and his is one notch up the Samsung food chain. FTR, the 6300 you mentioned is considered a "Smart TV". Reviews I lightly perused at Amazon are positive for the most part, with the usual disclaimers for systemic problems like Soap Opera effect in the Motion Flow settings, and limited viewing angle.
Your petty little dig at Ted (Samsung 6400 owner) shows you know nothing of him but it tells us a lot about you Carl.
As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, my base model 65" Panny is 2.5 years old. Like other posters here, it has no issues.
Underlying hostility? Hardly. Enjoy whatever set you buy and post yer thoughts Carl.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
I mentioned in my very first post that the 6300 is a "smart tv"...wake up!
I've not seen any "jerky motion" in any TV's I've seen. You're saying you had two TV's up and running side by side and this 6400 had jerky motion, where a plasma did not? Or are you just commenting on jerky motion you saw...and assumed it was the fault of the tv and not the video source or content??
Haha, I'm not being any more petty than you are, and you know it ;-). !$1900 is a total waste of money on a 55 inch tv, that's just a fact.
And thanks, I do hope to enjoy whatever tv I wind up keeping...but I strongly doubt you will read anything I say about it, without a vain attempt at disputing every word of it. Thanks for caring though :P...
You asked for advice, thanked me for some, and did your small minded best to belittle and mischaracterize the rest of what I said. Here's a website for your consideration, you'll fit in very nicely with these folks
http://forums.meter.com/
Tell em Roadie sent you.
--------------------------
"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Not true at all, and I'm not remotely small minded. I asked specifically about two LED TV's, and you and all the others who have posted, are obsessed with "panny" plasma TV's...and have had nothing intelligent or OBJECTIVE to say about the two TV's in question.
In my decades of forum experience, guys usually tend to like best, whatever they own. That however, does not entitle them to be right all the time, or even to know what they are talking about. Fanboi of the week award belongs to you though. Get over yourself, ok?
100% agreement among actual owners.
Still, I don't know...
I don't consider myself a plasma fanboi. Of my two sets, a semi hi end Sony LCD/LED, and my cheap, bottom of the line, Panny, I simply prefer the picture and lack of issues of the Panny.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Well then I suggest you only watch your beloved panny and sell the other one.
That'd be kinda silly wouldn't it Carl? Plasma wouldn't work in there anway as we have floor to ceiling windows that let in a wee bit too much light so I felt an edgelit Sony 55" LED would be a good match, and, it is!!
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
You could always read a book instead! Or else just sit at your computer and type away on the net...
Heaven forbid your living room should go without a tv!! You could always use darker curtains if there's too much light in there.
I mean, you're so passionate about the plasma tv, it just seems like you're kind of a hypocrite that you would own anything else, let alone actually spend time watching something on it. You definitely just aren't a serious videophile unless you sell the lesser tv and buy a better one...
I AM passionate about not spending more money on flippin' curtains.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Well get shades instead or something, I don't know. Perhaps your wife needs to learn the value of a dollar...then she might not spend so much on curtains. This reminds me of those shower curtains that cost $5000...You don't work for the IRS do you? Taken many junkets to Vegas this year? Acted out any old "Star Trek" tv scenes? You know, as a "team building" exercise?
on behalf of big, medium, and little oil. The curtains turned out very nice and represented very good value relative to the house. With custom made, you always wonder if they'll look like the samples the designer showed you. I saw your system, btw. Lots of exotic goodies in there Carl. One COULD pick at the value of certain items IF one were a small minded prick.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Good for you. Maybe as soon as I overthrow the government and instigate the next civil war, people like you will come in handy...as pawns that is. ;-)
Haha, and since you did not, that makes you not a small minded prick? Keep telling yourself that. Btw, that was my system about a decade ago...I've been in and out of highend stuff since then (and the stuff listed was not all that expensive or exotic...it was quite common.) If I could afford exotic pieces now, I would buy them. Of course I would have to be a supremely intelligent prick, rather than a small minded one who only likes what I own and wants to trash what other people own, or otherwise are curious about. Do you know anybody like that?
Not wanting a plasma tv, does not make me small minded. You thinking anyone who watches anything other than one to be an idiot, makes you closed minded.
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"I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Panasonic MAY or may NOT agree with you. They might....I've heard it a couple times, get OUT of the Plasma market.
Yet, I hear they are NOW selling a basically cost-no-object panel, which should equal or better the performanc of the Kuro sets from Pioneer....just a few years ago. THAN it was Pioneer that dropped out of the Plasma market.
Me? Between HUNDREDS of threads on LCD issues and the better performance of Plasma sets, I chose Plasma. I'm not planning on selling so what difference does resale make?
If money is an issue, I'd FIRST suggest downsizing your TV 'wants'. I was in a short money situation when my 60" Sony SXRD decided to pack up.....so I went with a 50" Plasma.
Too much is never enough
Well, my first Panasonic plasma (50") is over 7 years old now, has gotten heavy use, and still looks great. No problems at all. I don't know what you mean by 'pixels blowing out'. That's a new one on me. I think the burn in thing is not the problem it was in older units either. Its only a problem if you use it for games that may have objects on screen all the time (we don't use ours for games. The kids have a LG LCD for that).
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