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In Reply to: RE: Saw this in dolby ATMOS very immersive experience... posted by Mark Man on January 17, 2015 at 16:07:11
film really explain his four tours and several hundred kills?
No. The Dad's admonition sounds facile, invented. Certainly, transposing it to a war is far-fetched, more so.
No man repeatedly risks his own life, risks losing his wife and two kids, to go off and kill (or assassinate, since the opponent has no chance, at all). A man driven by such selflessness and love of his fellow man wouldn't pick killing as his vehicle.
This man, I think it's obvious, enjoyed killing; he even was ready to kill another child.
The fact that he could return to duty after killing one child speaks more than anything Eastwood or Kyle could say.
Follow Ups:
I have a very good friend who is in the reserves, start as an Lt. 91-93 2-tours, Bosnia 2 tours, Iraq 3 tours 02-06, Afghanistan 2 tours 08-10...he is know a Lt. Col.
During that time frame, got married and had 3 kids in-between tours...He put more time on the ground than most active soldiers...he had that sense of DUTY...it was about country, but more about being "there" for his fellow soldiers...it would take him 6-12 months to really decompress...
We would golf and he would talk yardage in clicks...
My Dad was WW II 82nd Airborne paratrooper, 52 combat jumps, mostly out of gliders, aka plywood coffins, 3 days in front of the artillery to site and locate troops, artillery, bunkers, machine gun nests...he was the youngest first sergeant in army history and holds a patent on a mortar site that became standard army issue...they were ninja's...he did not talk about the war at ALL...we got a hold of one of his old army buddies and he told us many many graphic war stories...they killed more Germans with their bare hands than with guns...Paratroopers did not take prisoners...they killed EVERYONE, first thing they did was look for an SS tattoo under the left arm pit...they got a special death...
He jumped at D-day, part of those lost paratroopers in SPR, first to jump across the Rhine river at the battle of the bulge, they were part of the rescue relief a Bastogne to save the 101st Airborne that were pinned down...The Battled Bastards of Bastogne...
I believe in the day he LIKED to kill...as a 1st sergeant, he trained killers...
That 2nd child was the best scene...finally internal conflict came to the surface...he would have pulled that trigger, no doubt...would not have liked it...BUT that sense of DUTY and saving his brothers who were in emanate danger...
He did learn to like to kill, but he did also learn to fear the consequences of living with it...Combat is killing...See Patton's opening monologue...
We send kids across the world to KILL...especially those NAVY Seals...they are our specially trained KILLERS...let's no sugar coat this...the movie is celebrating OUR best ALL time killer...it does it, without glorifying it and gives us a peak at the stoic figure that pulled the trigger, he did not like the fact that he was known as the Legend, for killing...relished in the fact the young guys felt safe when he was up high protecting them...he felt he could do more, by leading them on the ground...going door to door...
The hunting scene is important to show skill at a young age...my oldest brother has the temperament when hunting where everything slows down...his breathing, heart rate, becomes hyper focused...he is an amazing shot with a rifle and has been a logger in Northern MN for 40 years...Average Joe hunters...when the time comes to shoot...heart is racing, breathing so heavy you fog your scope, you are shaking due to adrenaline coursing through your veins...very seldom do young kids have the skills to make a good shot...they make the point that Kyle did...
This was by far my favorite Cooper performance...very subtle, internally conflicted with the love hate of war, stored in a very stoic figure Tx's cowboy...
thanks
Mark
Iraq never attacked us. Period.
Your golf friend also had quite a different situation. Snipers are different.
The guy was a sniper. Not a paratrooper. A sniper. ALL he did was kill. His presence wasn't necessary. In WWII, every man counted.
Some things in war one shouldn't glorify. Make no mistake, Kyle wrote a book. A lot of his fellows didn't like that. SEALS should be silent, not showboats.
My "friend" had the second worse job in the Military...He was MP and the first line of interrogation to determine whether the prisoners were farmers, shepherds, merchants or terrorists'...he worked with interpreters during the first process interviews...one of the reasons they liked him in that position, he could pick up foreign languages extremely quickly and his day job was a probation officer with a really good BS detector...Once he learned language, he would play dumb the first half of the interview and then do second half of the interview he would conduct in their language...
He felt his JOB or DUTY was not to put terrorists back on the street...he saved lives by making sure prisoners were friend or foe...kind of important gig...
thanks
Mark
is ultimately to glory in death, itself.
Throughout history, do we worship the Mongols, Vikings, and all military conquerors? Is bloodlust that rare that it needs to be promoted?
The US hasn't been attacked since Pearl Harbor, by a foreign military. Yet, we've pretty much non-stop engaged in wars, in our hemisphere and around the globe. Is a lack of militarism a problem, considering that?
We just ended two wars; is it time to glorify them?
The film was called, "American Sniper." Why the emphasis?
Anyhow, many folks disagree with me, I'm okay with that.
peasant enemy from very, very, afar.It ain't about giving them a chance. It's about bringing every thing we have to bear to NOT give them a chance. They have the option to run away or fight. Snipers are an INTEGRAL part of the urban ground operation. Always have been and always will be. I'd imagine there are hundreds of American soldiers that are alive today who can thank Chris Kyle and thousands that can thanks his peers. As far as I'm concerned, their being alive is a good thing. N'est pas?
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"Have you a water buffalo?"
Edits: 01/17/15 01/17/15
Whatever happened to realizing something you did was necessary, but a necessary evil?
There is a disconnect between the character being self-effacing (in several scenes) and then writing a book.
Kind of like the guy who took out Bin Laden and then goes on a victory lap. His buddies didn't appreciate that.
We're talking about killing human beings.
Do it, okay, but don't make it seem like it's a noble undertaking.
It's the worst thing a man can do, so it had better be for a good cause.
You keep going back to...we are killing people during war...as we would ALL like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, have a Coke and smile...
The reality of War, is killing the enemy before he kills you or your brothers in arms...
You are talking in policy issues of going to war and blaming the soldier for caring out OUR political policy...so, you expect our soldiers personal morality to trump his orders??!!?? Correct???
OT: What color is the sky in your world???
Any culture that will use Women and/or children as a deliver medium for weapons against their enemy...is banking on our compassion as a country NOT to pull the trigger...Chris Kyle knew this and did what it took to save his band of brothers...no matter how ugly that is...he saved American lives...
My Dad would ask us this question allot..."who do you want in your Foxhole???"...Well, I want Chris Kyle in mine...
Thanks
Mark
will be held accountable.
But you've put up a red herring.
I know that to go to war is to sign up to kill. A soldiers job, quite obviously, is to defeat the enemy, killing him if necessary.
Fine with that, assuming it's a justifiable war.
But this was a film about an individual. A guy who killed (unlike the examples by Road Warrior, a sniper SEES his adversary, sees him die) several hundred human beings. Who volunteered for FOUR tours of duty. Of course he was being glorified: we were told a story about how he saved his brother from bullying, under a philosophy from his Dad (that goes beyond trite, doesn't it?). His brother, a Marine, is later shown as an overwrought basket case; why was that depiction included?
I don't like being manipulated and that's exactly what this film was doing. It is propaganda, pure and simple. Kind of like "Dirty Harry" glorifying a cop that did a lot of killing, too.
But I stand by my first impression, this had a very documentary type feel about it...it did leave me with the impression I was watch FOX NEWS!!!
It handled it with a very neutral hand, IMHO...showed you multiple perspectives, without saying this is right and this is wrong...
"Fine with that, assuming it's a justifiable war", speaking of red herring...try and get people to agree with that statement??!!??
"His brother, a Marine, is later shown as an overwrought basket case; why was that depiction included?"
Thank you for mentioning that, great point...not everyone can be a trained killer...period...This bio-pic gave us a peak of the personality it takes to be a Sniper and live with yourself...look at the exchange with the psychologist...he comes up with this pat answer, that must be a type of mantra for him to live with himself..."I can stand in front of my Maker and answer for every shot I took"...he keeps repeating this to help disseminate his own internal conflict...where is the glory here...
This could have been a HUGE propaganda movie and IMHO, it is not...taking into account this is the director that spoke to an empty chair at the RNC...this was much more Unforgiven than Dirty Harry...
Thanks
Mark
aggressive, well trained, smart enemy, all good attributes when describing an adversary. The firefights had much of the feel of the almost continuous firefights in the outstanding documentary, The Hornet's Nest.
As far as tin's statement about a sniper looking at his kills, one might think that looking an adversary in the eye (so to speak) before pulling the trigger to be far more "honorable" (for lack of a better word) than a pilot pickleing a bomb from 10,000', an artilleryman firing a 155mm shell from 10 miles away, (insert other examples here). As far as who causes more collateral damage, the sniper, pilot, or artilleryman, the latter 2 tin apparently has no problem with, I think it's pretty obvious what the answer is.
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"Have you a water buffalo?"
warfare isn't really about killing the enemy, it's about being able to handle the massive amount of slaughter; an infinitesimal number of soldiers ever see the person they're shooting at; they fire at "zones."
If danger is tied in with how much honor is exhibited, then I suppose it depends on what the anti-aircraft situation is for the pilot and how often snipers are under fire.
Anyhow, both are necessary.
I had a completely different take on the film's impact: I felt it very much was glorifying the guy.
A turn good adventure film, I'd have to say, nevertheless...
Was Chris Kyle ever injured in combat?
Yes. He survived three gunshot wounds, two helicopter crashes, six IED attacks and numerous surgeries
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"Have you a water buffalo?"
at a service station.
Never happened.
The film never touched on drug or alcohol issues, quite strangely. Maybe he was totally clean, but that would be unusual. He sure had "issues."
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"Have you a water buffalo?"
.
it's like a craziness. It doesn't make sense but it is most honorable when men under pressure want to stick together. Reference Hoot's answer to that very question in 'Blackhawk Down': "It's about the brotherhood". His friends don't understand and he doesn't even try to explain. If your own hide is the most important thing to you this is a lost conversation.
f
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