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At 12:00am PST, Toshiba announced that they were officially exiting from HD DVD. Expect Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal announcements to follow.
Follow Ups:
... then brace yourselves for his next reality show ... "Cheerleading for Losers".
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
with apolgoes. DUI
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Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
The amount of tears you're spilling exceeds the entire volume of water that goes over Niagara Falls in one year!!!!!!!!
LOL
Lol
lol??
SF
Actually, I am anxiously awaiting the next format he will support. I am sure the industry is waiting as well! LOL "No more major investment until we know which way Cackle is going to lean." ... "Then we can lean the other way!" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Kekky, who is LOLing now?
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
nt
We all want to start placing our bets before the odds get too slim ... and the industry types want to make sure they run the other way. LOL
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
At least you still have "Love" to make you smile ... and as "dead" as you say SACD is, at least they are still releasing disks and building players.
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
Charles Hansen of Ayre has always been spot on predicting market trends. He’s a damn good engineer too. That’s why I have always trusted his predictions.
Here's what will happen:
"...If it were up to Sony and Panasonic (and Ole Lund Christensen???), we would have a new format every 3 years so that they could keep people on an endless upgrade cycle and keep selling new hardware..."
That’s right, in 2010, we will have a new Pure-ray disc(amazing new lasers that ultilize all the seven colours of the rainbow) or Plural-ray disc (implying combination of myriad different coloured lasers) ! The format developers for this single-coloured laser Blu-ray format ain't going to recoup their money spent on R&D. As to which name would be used on the next new generation discs, the horizon is still very cloudy inside my crystal ball, so while waiting for the cocaine induced purple haze to clear, let's examine his other predictions first.
"...But the software industry (movie studios) are raking in money hand over fist with standard DVDs. There are 60,000,000 stand alone DVD players in the US alone. The biggest growth market for DVD is yet to come in developing countries (China, India, et cetera). These markets don't give a fig about high definition video...."
He's highly, definitely right. All the DVD marketing & film company guys I spoke to in those 2 countries universally claim that the reasons why DVD got off its butt in their markets is due to pirated DVDs that brought the prices down, so that even the shirtless, poor Chinese and Indian farmers can afford to buy the discs. Blu-ray disc code is unbreakable, so these poor Chinese or Indian farmers ain’t never gonna get their hands on High Definition video. DVD is more than good enough for these peasants.
"...How long do you think it will be before there are even 10,000 Blu-Ray players at $4,000 a pop? Two years? Three years? How much money can a movie studio make selling Blu-Ray discs to 10,000 potential customers?..."
So what he underestimated Blu-ray potential sales a little bit? Sales figures are for sissies like Dewy. Film companies like Paramount and (to a lesser known fact) Warner, actually are making money, not by selling Blu-ray discs or HD-DVD discs, but by getting under-the-table money (in the millions) from Toshiba and Sony respectively. (why else did you think Warner defected to Blu-ray and defecated on HD-DVD???) So when that money ran out, the high moral Warner Brothers will go back into HD-DVDs.
And Hansen may yet be proven right again for his next statement.
"...The reality is that there won't be strong market penetration in the US for *any* new format until the price drops below $200 for a player. (That's exactly what happened for DVD.) But that would erase the entire reason for even making Blu-Ray players. Once the players become a commodity, the Japanese cannot compete against the Chinese. Then they'll try and sell you Purple-Ray..."
Yes. It's going to be called Purple-Ray! You heard it here first.
"...Blu-Ray ain't gonna fly for consumer electronics. Computers, yes. There the demand for a removeable recording format that can store 50 GB is huge. It's just not practical to back up a 100 GB hard drive onto DVDs..."
No wonder Sony cap the HDD on their PS3 at 80GB only. They must have hired Hansen as their consultant! He’s got a first hand look at the impending disaster waiting to happen.
Look out for the world’s first Purple-ray disc player from Ayre. Hurray! It’ll be the first time he’s well ahead of other manufacturers. Racerguy and I will be the first in line to buy one.
the realm of video and the high res audio will be dominated by the mass market companies. That is a fact I've observed for the past decade or so.
The reason is simple: money. Most high end companies are rather small and and have limited resources and manpower. People like Sony and Panasonic have access to hundreds of engineers and multi millions of dollars. High end companies can not even dream of matching salaries paid to top engineers of Cisco, Microsoft, Atari and others in the compute design and software field. A great engineer employed by those companies probably earns more than the heads of most 'high end' companies. Just where do you suppose the brightest and most talented designers from universities and colleges are going to seek work, you suppose?
A high end company can not afford to commission proprietary specialty chips: the return on the investment is simply too small to justify the cost. While high end audio likes to see itself as catering to the elite and being a leader in technology, the sheer size of the high end market is too small and consumers are probably more worried about appearance and prestige than true performance.
The digital/video field simply moves far too quickly for the typical high end company to probably even keep abreast. The last really high end attempts in the venue were the development of the Ultra analog chip, now basically extinct, and the development of the HDCD by Keith Johnson and Reference Recordings, now a foot note in the history of digital. At the time of introduction both were quite an improvement, I thought, but their failure simply points out the limited scope of the penetration of the high end into a mass market commodity.
The sweeping success of MP-3 and the ipod further demonstrates that the masses are not so concerned with extreme fidelity as they are with convenience and cost. The proliferation of the Chinese audio invasion further demonstrates the public's preoccupation with low cost.
Dvds may be very popular in China, but at $1 per disc, jewel box extra, most studios are not profiting from its proliferation. The public may also will put up with the video taped versions of movies, but as the Chinese economy develops a middle class they too will want a better disc.
Remember, high res video is the provenance of an owner of a larger TV set. I believe in the US 50 inch screens are now rapidly becoming the norm. If the prevailing set size in China is 20 inch, high res is not really viable, simply because of the size of the set. High res video simply does not make much of a difference.
Surround sound similarly was not important in Europe and Japan, again because homes were smaller and thus the typical consumer had no need of a sound system that was larger in presentation than what the TV set can provide. Now that Plasma and LCD's are common place and significantly more affordable, surround sound is making significant inroads into those foreign markets.
Blue ray penetration into the market is highly dependent on the size of the screen you watch. The size of the screen is determined by the general economic status of the individual. Prices are dropping rapidly, however, so you will see a proliferation of larger and larger sets. Prices are also dropping significantly for Blu ray machines, and I see machines in the under $400 price category already, and I am not consciously trying to keep up with the technology.
This places further strain on the resources of the high end. While Ed Meitner has been able to do it, it was only with the cooperation of Sony. Sony considers itself to be high end. Their excellent high end ES CD transports have never really been released to the general high end manufacturers. As one Sony administrator I spoke to commented: "why bother with the flies around a cow when you can get the whole cow itself?"
Stu
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Rather sad, as I believe he is one of the better sources of audio information out there. I just wish he wasn't so "out there" on this one.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
make a Blu ray player, because he is also a good businessman.
But of course he will defend his current products until he release the Blu ray.
It was the same story with SACD.
unless it comes to KEKL.
If you want a clear example of poor sportsmanship just check out Bluray.com. You'd think the second coming of Christ just occurred. I think they are more obsessed than Toronto Maple Leaf fans (a Canadian thing).
It was beyond frustrating to be told for months on end such lies as capacity doesn't matter, that Microsoft has a vested interest in seeing optical formats fail, that PS3 sales didn't matter, that Blu-ray sales didn't matter, etc. etc. I hope the moderators over at AVS take a good hard look at how they treated the Blu-ray adopters and insiders compared to the HD DVD camp, because frankly it was inexcusable and I lost all respect for that forum. It had long ago reached the point where people were getting banned and having threads deleted for making valid observations and posting news items. Blu-ray.com does have its immature denizens, but any vehemence against HD DVD adopters is by and large well deserved. We see a little of that here with guys like Audiophilander dumbing down the dialogue.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Your post says it all.
Jack
Because I agree with most of what Jazz said.
There have been nutcases on both sides, but my opinion is that the HD DVD side was a bit nuttier. It's really sad when you can't have a discussion or an argument among fellow enthusiasts/professionals without childish insults from the "ignorant" crowd. What's worse is when moderators have a bias/preference (not that that's bad, as everyone is entitled to their opinion), only to blatantly let it show. Why do you think most of the Blu-ray insiders left AVS Forum? Because they didn't get their way? Far from it. The real reason was because Microsoft mercenaries were allowed to run rampant and uncontested, and when corrected, cried "foul" and were given their way like spoiled children who take their ball when the game doesn't go their way. * That's a fact, regardless of who says otherwise. It wasn't like this at first, but the last year and a half was sickening. When someone posts a comment that's blatantly false and the person that corrects them with verifiable proof gets a warning or a suspension from a moderator, things have gotten far beyond "out of control". I recently exchanged some PMs with a current moderator re: the sad state of AVS. He told me that there are many members there who he would like to ban, but basically, his hands were tied. That should give you an idea as to which way the wind blows with the upper management. Neutral? Ya must be jokin', mon!
True story. A little over 2 years ago, I made a comment about lossy vs lossless audio on AVS Forum. A Microsoft employee sent me a PM questioning why I would post what I did and used video compression as the basis for his argument. The problem was that his analogy was faulty and he really didn't know enough about video compression or the bitrates of uncompressed video. After I helped him understand where he was wrong, I asked him some non-A/V related questions. In his subsequent responses, I think he revealed a little too much company info. It's a long story, but the bottom line is that the Microsoft employee "infestation" on A/V message boards (running alongside High Definition optical disc introduction) was a directive from none other than Bill Gates! Watching what was developing on several A/V forums armed with that interesting bit of info, it was no wonder why Blu-ray/HD DVD developed into the mess that was the format war.
* Microsoft, once the closed-door talks with Warner Bros went south: (knowing things weren't going their way) We'll provide VC-1 support only if you promise to supply us with future download content. See, the children did turn out just like their parents. Someone once said that there was a unique "culture" at Redmond. Close. It's actually more like a virus -- ebola.
and they accepted the judgement.
They used illegal monopolist business practice.
I am pleased to see that Bill Gates now tries to make amends by giving the crime money away.
Please note that Microsoft's biggest(turnover) center outside USA is in Denmark, I am not bashing USA, only Microsoft.
If Microsoft swallow Yahoo, they will get stomach ache, and empty pockets. (evil :-))
Furtunately USA have IBM, Google, apple, firefox, Linux and many others offering better software.
And after EU forced Microsoft to open files, they can compete.
see link
- http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/microsoft-concedes-complies-with-eu-antitrust-ruling/ (Open in New Window)
posts. Good thing you do.
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You and the lawyer can have fun trying to see irony in my position. The fact is that the criticisms of Blu-ray were specious and the criticisms of HD DVD were significant. Instead of simply acknowledging that, the HD DVD adopters CHOSE to engage in character assassinations and all manner of ignoring basic facts about the format specs, sales and studio support. That observation is not personal attack (and therefore not ironic). It's an accurate assessment of what set the stage for bad blood on various forums where the formats were discussed. Even now that HD DVD will clearly go the way of the dodo, there is no hint of apology or even a "maybe you guys were right all along" from any of you HD DVD admirals, like Auph. In fact, he seems more intent than ever on screaming insults from the bow of his sinking battle ship. I would say it's unbelievable if I wasn't witnessing it first-hand.As for sad, I am the happiest camper on the forum right now, I guarantee it. So please save your pity for Auph and the other HD DVD adopters who got burned.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Things in life are rarely as black and white as you portray them.Jack
When a 20 gig disparity in capacity is declared unimportant and audio quality is declared unimportant, studio support is declared unimportant and sales are declared unimportant, something beyond "grey area" is going on there. It's called mass hypnosis or delusion.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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It's perfectly accurate.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have, but I'm not overly upset about it. My Toshiba player cost less than $200 and came with 10 free discs. It is a superb up-sampling DVD player, and many DVDs played with it can be almost as good as the average HD programming I get on my TV. I just purchased a number of HD DVDs for half-price, most at less than half the price of the Blu-Ray version if it exists; one doesn't even exist on Blu-Ray. I'll now wait until there is a standard for Blu-Ray, which there isn't now. At some point there will be a standard and prices for a quality player will be quite reasonable, and then I'll get one. I fully expect I'll get my money's worth out of it, so you don't have to feel sorry for me at least.
Joe
No biggie IMHO. They can still enjoy what they bought or are renting.
So much better than the usual "big bad Sony is making my four kids and three cats go without dinner for the next three months because Blu-ray players cost so much and now I gotta buy one because they killed the better format so Sony sux sux sux" hate posts we usually get around here.
see link
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