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In Reply to: RE: Couple questions on LCD TVs posted by jackrandom on July 20, 2008 at 16:29:10
Plasmas aren't going away anytime soon. As a matter of fact, by mid to late 2009 you will see performance and capability in a consumer display matched by no other (search for "extreme contrast concept"). The next step for plasma is 10-lumen tech and it's going to seriously make an impact when it reaches the showroom floors.
Plasma glass is made by Panasonic (Matshusita), LG, Samsung and Funai. Pioneer is making their last plasma glass this year: next year Panasonic will handle their glass manufacture and Pioneer will use their own electronics.
You can get a 58" Panasonic 1080p consumer model (1920x1080) for $3005 delivered. The 720p broadcast model (1366x768) can be delivered for $2468 (no speakers -- you provide your own which can be much better than what comes attached to today's consumer displays, no stand -- you can purchase the appropriate stand or get a wall mount for around $100, no tuner -- you use the tuner in your VCR/DVR/cable box/satellite receiver/etc). There will be a 1920x1080 broadcast model later this year.
Plasma's color accuracy is better than LCD as it's based on the phosphor technology of CRT. Today's plasmas leave the factory with 60 - 100,000 hours to half-brightness (60,000 = 6 hours a day for 27 years). That's not lifespan, which is even longer.
If you talked to a salesman at CC or BB, the 120Hz refresh rate they are referring to is the "live" or "fluid motion" interpolated picture I mentioned: it's not the proper 120Hz refresh that shows each frame 5x (ie, a multiple of 24Hz). Again, make sure your eyes and the eyes of anyone else watching will be able to handle that look for extended viewing if you want that type of picture.
Samsung is facing a class action lawsuit due to their lack of support and downright pathetic customer service with regard to their Blu-ray players. During the first 2 years they produced DVD players with digital video outputs, the returns were close to half of the sales (think about it) at CC and BB. They're a second rate company producing second rate products. They don't invent: they copy and do it poorly.
Follow Ups:
Thanks....you're making my life difficult. 8^) Tweeter is selling a 52" Samsung LCD (LN52A550) for $1959 and throwing in a Samsung blu-ray DVD player.
I'm considering that and the Panasonic Viera 50" plasma (50PZ85U), also $1950 but I don't get the player
I'm going over there tomorrow to view both
If you are interested in 'tweakability' the Samsung 550/650 series plasmas far exceed Panasonic in that regard. ISF techs love them because they can be tweaked almost entirely through the user menu. The control over color accuracy and gamma exceeds Panasonic or entry level Pioneer (5010, 5020, etc.)
The 3 by the way, are considered the top plasmas on the consumer market today.
Go with Pioneer for the best black levels, and very good color, and very good processing.
Panasonic for good out of the box performance, and 2nd best black levels.
The Samsung for good black levels, probably average for today's plasmas, but the best color accuracy and gamma. And don't underestimate the value of gamma.
Check out the latest edition of Widescreen Review for the Samsung 550 review and calibration, and the link below.
I have a 5000 duo player, and it is flawless..basically playing any format I throw at it with finesse. Samsung turned the corner this year in jumping on firmware releases and hopefully in customer support.
I've not had a lot of faith with them in the past, and for good reason.
Right now it's my T-9 non-iPod player, the 5000, and the PN50A650 plasma soon to arrive. So far, not a single complaint.
What bothers me most about Sony is their bent on making interfaces proprietary. I just sold my rear proj. LCD sony.. which did very well.
I really think their biggest accomplishment on the consumer front was the Trinitron tube. LOL
A very good one at that!
The Panny PZ85 is the best bang for the buck out there right now. If you buy it you will not be disappointed.
...beware that Sammy BR player.Some big box store somewhere near you is always running a special or a sale. I mean it, take your time. Look until you can tell the difference between displays.
I don't game, so burn-in isn't an issue for me, although I don't think it's much of an issue for plasmas anymore.
If you watch mainly brightly lit source material, like sports and TV shows, maybe the blacks and shadow detail on LCDs won't matter to you like they're deal killers for me. There are no perfect displays - yet.
Seriously, I know how hard it is not to pull the trigger when you want a new TV, but do your research first.
It's double jeopardy!
Seriously, I'm willing to bet that your choice would be much easier if you brought over a calibration disc and had both of them set up properly. In the store, neither is anywhere close to being correct.
As has been said by several people, take your time. I'll add that you shouldn't make any decisions based on what the salesman tells you and don't feel pressured to make a decision ASAP. If you can, take some familiar DVDs to compare on each display. If one of those DVDs is a calibration disc, all the better.
Good luck with your display journey and, most of all, be confident that you'll be happy with the purchase. Your display is the last thing you should be thinking about when trying to enjoy your movie collection.
CC has the Panasonic for $1699. As suggested take your time. I almost bought the Panasonic myself, but decided to go with a 52 Sharp Aquos instead...no worries about burn in. I see a lot of LCD bashing..lol. That's OK I still enjoy mine. No major problems with motion blurring. No more than a Plasma digital chipping.Depending on the processing of the LCD, will determine the motion artifacts. Unless you watch a lot of live sports 120 Hz refresh rate is useless.
If you ever plan to use this flat panel for a PC monitor or games. The LCD is still the better option. LCDs have come a long ways in the last few years.
I own both a plasma and LCD. Nothing wrong with Samsung. They make some killer panels. Those new LCD Samsung's have a terrific picture!
My only gripe with Plasma's is the burn in and the noise some of them give off. Less weight and heat are also better with the LCDs.
My 52 inch LCD is 62 pounds while the Plasma 42 inch is just under 100.
So pick your poison..there's no perfect panel whether LCD or Plasma.
Burn in really isnt much of an issue with plasma TV anymore. The early ones did have a problem, but the ones produced today seem much better in that regard. This is backed up by Consumer Reports, as well.
From Consumer Reports..."(Burn-in might have been more of a problem with early plasma sets. We've seen no evidence of permanent image retention in our short-term tests, and recent anecdotal evidence from our own staffers and online forum participants hasn't turned up any burn-in issues in typical long-term use at home.)"
Yeah that's what the salesman told me before I bought my unit. It still had burn in...which didn't take long. On a positive note, once I stopped using it with my PC and it sat unused and unplugged for a few days the burn in was gone.As long as I don't use it this way any more, burn in shouldn't be a problem.
My LCD shows absolutely no signs of burn in... not even a hint.
For people just using the plasma's for watching TV..they should be fine.
If it went away, then it wasnt really burn in. Real burn in is there to stay. You probably had a type of 'persistance', where a ghost of the image stays for a short time due to the persistance of the phospher. I have even seen this in LCDs (my computer monitors). If I have something on screen for a long time, I can see a ghosting of it afterwards. It slowly fades away after the guilty application is closed. After 10 min. or so, its gone.
Yeah that was the problem with my plasma. Unfortunately the image wouldn't fade away after ten minutes. Not even after several hours. It wasn't until I replaced it with the LCD and completely unplugged it... did it clear up.I can leave my LCD on an image for hours..no ghosting or image retention at all...zero.
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