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In Reply to: RE: Agreed posted by Jack G on February 17, 2009 at 05:03:33
What's so darned infuriating is that the R2 and R4 DVDs I have are usually titles NOT AVAILABLE in the freakin USA (GRRRRRRR). Also true of my BDs.
I want a one box solution, so I guess I'll have to go with one from the tweakers that's all region ready for PAL>NTSC...and A&B.
Follow Ups:
My hope is that Oppo monitors discussions on various A/V boards to get a feel for which way the wind is blowing (since they're primarily a direct sales marketer dependent upon word of mouth endorsements and targeted advertising to make up that which is lost through not having a nationwide dealership network). If so, maybe cooler heads will prevail at the company before they lose substantial business.Maybe they'll come to see that sacrificing a key function on which the company has built it's reputation in order to appease the powerful BD consortium Oppo is too big of a gamble. That they are chasing an even shakier niche market that is already dominated by manufacturers which have the means to undercut Oppo's product while staying one step ahead.
While nothing is set in stone, this is how I perceive things sorting out (given the fact that up until the controversy surrounding this player I've been a solid Oppo supporter like so many others):
Let's say Oppo offers SACD, DVD-A and a bunch of other bells and whistles on the new BDP-83. How is that competitive? Most of Oppo's existing customer base probably owns one or more Oppo players which perform every conceivable function except BD. Economic belt tightening notwithstanding, the only incentive returning customers would probably have for buying Oppo's new player is if it does everything their earlier players did AND adds Blu-ray.
Any function(s) taken away from earlier players, especially key capabilities such as backwards compatibility with other region DVDs, will probably be seen by Oppo's customer base as a zero sum loss. Essentially, it makes the Oppo BDP-83 less competitive with other manufacturer's players since a) the Oppo BD player probably won't be cheaper than most competitors current hot-ticket models, and b) one would still require an older Oppo player for those standard DVDs from other regions that can't be played on it.
The tragedy: If Oppo's owners had held their ground and resisted the DVD region-locking demands of the BD consortium (in respect to a format they have no interest in preserving) it could've been a win/win for the small company. Instead I've read disingenuous PR from their Beta testers that Oppo is trying to take the high road by following the Consortium's rules after flaunting them for years; that's nice, but it's hogwash. I suspect they've taken the road to Palookaville, and no one would like to see Oppo go under quicker than the BD Consortium.
Maybe it isn't too late (I'm an eternal optimist), but from my armchair critic's perspective the folks at Oppo should reconsider and do a '180' if they want to retain the loyalty of their customer base (even if it ticks off the BD Cartel, errr, ...Consortium).
AuPh
Edits: 02/18/09
Oppo has a cult following. They have people lining up to pay full price, just to be Beta testers. They will lose some customers, for not being region free, but they will gain enough from being BD that it probably won't matter.
Jack
When customers get upset, sometimes action results. Take a case in point: the debacle over The Fugitive Season 2 Vol. 1 dropping Pete Rugolo's original music and hiring Mark Heye's to compose a synthesizer score as a means of dodging incidental music rights issues. It was laziness on the part of CBS/Paramount to not have their legal department make the extra effort in checking out clearances.For months I've heard that protesting this decision would get fans nowhere because it would cost too much to go back and replace Pete Rugolo's music and cues to placate disgruntled customers. But the negative publicity and relentless criticism finally paid off and in the past couple of days CBS/Paramount issued an exchange program (ending in Sept.).
This may be anecdotal and not directly applicable to Oppo's situation, but it should be a cautionary to ALL manufacturers of products that are impacted by customer satisfaction issues, especially in tough economic times. Of course it's only speculation, but it's not hard to see how the loss of any percentage of customers along with the inevitable criticisms of the product might negatively impact the bottom line of a small direct sales manufacturer such as Oppo.
AuPh
Edits: 02/18/09
Studios need to protect their distribution rights on home video, and the only way to do this is by region encoding. Sorry you don't like the rules, but they exist for a reason. If you stupidly invested in DVDs not playable in your region, don't blame Oppo, blame yourself.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
> > > "Studios need to protect their distribution rights on home video..." < < <
You are obviously not very well briefed on this subject. Apparently you think that folks who buy imported movies and television shows are buying bootlegs. Ummm, let me see, how do I put this: NO!
Clue #1: Folks who buy imported movies and series do so legally, for a variety of entirely legitimate reasons. All royalties and levied taxes are paid and the studio of origin receives whatever is owed them.
Clue #2: Folks who buy DVDs from other regions may have a favorite movie or series not available at all in this country, or not available unedited. Sometimes it's an issue of buying the best mastered version. Often these are regionally popular shows or expanded movies that would not have sufficient interest to warrant a second international release in NTSC format.
> > > "Sorry you don't like the rules, but they exist for a reason..." < < <
No offense, but do you ever tire of being a pretentious little ass-kisser?
The folks at Oppo chose to bend over and take it in the rear from the almighty BD Consortium (a bunch of egotistical pricks who seem determined to limit the potential of what may be the last sell-through disc delivered medium), but what their management apparently failed to realize is that compliance to the BD Cartel's rules is a "buy-in" to the riskiest Texas Hold'em game in the world. The guys sitting around this table EAT and shit small companies like Oppo because the 'rules' are designed to favor established manufacturers and overprotective studios with deep pockets, not mavericks who've been bucking the system for years.
Oppo could have resisted the Consortium's demands for DVD region locking and threatened to move their base of operations off-shore like the after-market market modded players which are growing in popularity (both region AND Zone free, BTW). I suspect that they will lose that edge as a result of the poor decision to 'play' by the BD Cartel's Draconian rules.
> > > "If you stupidly invested in DVDs not playable in your region, don't blame Oppo, blame yourself." < < <
You STILL don't get it do you? I have a couple of Oppo players already (all earlier Oppo players are region unlocked); I was going to sell one of them and buy the BDP-83, but if the new BD player isn't region free I'll pass and probably end-up buying an after market modded player.
When one has multiple players, preamps, receivers, etc., rack space becomes a very real issue. If the Oppo BDP-83 provided a one box solution at the proposed price point it would have been sufficient reason for me to invest in another Blu-ray player (allowing me to move my Oppo 983H and non-modded Panny BD player to my second system, which is less cramped for space).
Oppo let me down here (in more ways than one), but I doubt you'd be able to figure that out even with the roadmap I've provided. ;O)
AuPh
> > You are obviously not very well briefed on this subject. Apparently you think that folks who buy imported movies and television shows are buying bootlegs. Ummm, let me see, how do I put this: NO! < <
Never said you were buying bootlegs or doing anything illegal, so all three of you must have a guilty conscience if your first thoughts ran to that. I said studios can and will protect their home video distribution rights in the regions they have rights to distribute it. Makes sense, huh? If you're not in the region, you should only be able to access intellectual property, including digitally encoded movies, from the company that has legal distribution rights. But buying an imported DVD itself is not a crime and I never said otherwise.
> > Clue #1: Folks who buy imported movies and series do so legally, for a variety of entirely legitimate reasons. All royalties and levied taxes are paid and the studio of origin receives whatever is owed them. < <
Yes, but in many cases that studio only has rights for distribution in a certain region--not where you live.
> > Clue #2: Folks who buy DVDs from other regions may have a favorite movie or series not available at all in this country, or not available unedited. < <
i understand that, but often this arises because of edits that satisfy certain ratings bodies or other regulatory rules. Also, by buying an import and giving your money to a studio that has distribution rights in another geographic region, you are helping ensure that the studio that has distribution rights in your region loses a sale, thereby providing less incentive for them to issue the release. A better course of action might be to write to that studio and request the title.
> > No offense, but do you ever tire of being a pretentious little ass-kisser? < <
I don't see myself that way. Do you see yourself as a burned out leather clad stoner who adopts rebel-without-a-clue mentality on every issue under the sun? That's how I see you.
> > The folks at Oppo chose to bend over and take it in the rear from the almighty BD Consortium (a bunch of egotistical pricks who seem determined to limit the potential of what may be the last sell-through disc delivered medium), but what their management apparently failed to realize is that compliance to the BD Cartel's rules is a "buy-in" to the riskiest Texas Hold'em game in the world. The guys sitting around this table EAT and shit small companies like Oppo because the 'rules' are designed to favor established manufacturers and overprotective studios with deep pockets, not mavericks who've been bucking the system for years. < <
That was pretty stupid, even for you. All formats need to have rules that ensure enough openness, protection and distribution privileges to make it a viable medium. You won't be able to please everyone, but BD abviously pleased more consumers and studios than HD DVD because (I know this is still tough for you to see through the purple haze) HD DVD is dead and buried. Blu-ray is here to stay. Oppo wants to produce a BD player, so it will need to acquire a license and play by the rules.
> > Oppo could have resisted the Consortium's demands for DVD region locking and threatened to move their base of operations off-shore like the after-market market modded players which are growing in popularity (both region AND Zone free, BTW). I suspect that they will lose that edge as a result of the poor decision to 'play' by the BD Cartel's Draconian rules. < <
Thanks for that brilliant analysis, but I think Oppo's staff like things just fine here in the bay area.
> > You STILL don't get it do you? I have a couple of Oppo players already (all earlier Oppo players are region unlocked); I was going to sell one of them and buy the BDP-83, but if the new BD player isn't region free I'll pass and probably end-up buying an after market modded player. < <
Suit yourself. I'll buy the Oppo, if the new model lives up to the company's reputation.
> > When one has multiple players, preamps, receivers, etc., rack space becomes a very real issue. < <
Maybe if you didn't stupidly adopt HD DVD and buy so many HD DVD players, you'd have more room on your rack. By the way, were those Toshiba HD DVD players region-unlocked? Of course not. So it's pretty f'ing hypocritical of you to demand that BD players are region unlocked while holding HD DVD players to a different standard.
> > Oppo let me down here (in more ways than one), but I doubt you'd be able to figure that out even with the roadmap I've provided. < <
Oppo didn't let you down. You let yourself down and now you're blaming Oppo.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
> > > "...all three of you must have a guilty conscience if your first thoughts ran to that." < < <
That's a nice heaping pile of you-know-what. You are the sad clown who keeps beating his drum about "not following the rules" like some whiny brat upset that his fellow school-mates are enjoying something his parents won't allow.
> > > "If you're not in the region, you should only be able to access intellectual property, including digitally encoded movies, from the company that has legal distribution rights." < < <
Baloney! First of all, let's get one thing out of the way right now: intellectual 'anything' is above your pay grade. That said, as long as all party's receive the proper compensation for an item released in a free market economy for public consumption there is no 'intellectual' right of limit access of who sees it in which region. Everything else moves down the slippery-slope of censorship.
> > > "Yes, but in many cases that studio only has rights for distribution in a certain region--not where you live." < < <
That's the flimsiest argument fro region restricting I've ever read. If the distributor has no intention of marketing something outside of a given region because of it's limited mass market appeal then how are the intellectual property rights compromised if a consumer imports it? If the product isn't purchased then everyone along the chain suffers to a greater or lesser degree from the lost sales!
> > > "All formats need to have rules that ensure enough openness..." < < <
Those so-called rules are what limits BD acceptance. What you are referring to isn't openness, in fact, it's anathema (to openness)!
Well, I've taken enough time debunking your tomfoolery. It would be child's play dissecting the remainder of your post, but I have no interest in kicking more sand in your face from the sandbox your family cat uses. The issues are clear: you have one perspective, and it appears to be the minority POV. You may not have directly called us all bootleggers and pirates, but you've turned cart-wheels around here implying that you've taken the high-road while the rest of us might as well be highwaymen. Here's a clue: the road you're on and Oppo appears to be headed down is a dead-end.
AuPh
These are legally bought discs, from legitimate stores, in many/most cases in the US. We aren't talking about cheating a studio that is going to show the movie in theaters here or sell the disc here. We aren't talking bootlegs. We're talking about movies that just don't get a large distribution in the US. As strange as it may sound to you, not everyone gets orgasms over the latest Blockbuster. Some people have more expanded tastes. It is neither illegal nor wrong.
JackEDIT: I'm not blaming anyone, but if they won't accommodate my needs, they will not get my money.
Edits: 02/19/09
from the studio. And all we want to do is play them. Who's losing out? It ain't them, so don't turn "entitlement" around on us.
The retailer isn't going to turn down your money no matter where they are.
But if you expect electronics manufacturers to give up their license rights just so you can play a DVD from a different region, you're going to be disappointed.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
> > > "But if you expect electronics manufacturers to give up their license rights just so you can play a DVD from a different region, you're going to be disappointed." < < <
Oppo has been providing this function since they started manufacturing DVD players without incurring any legal penalties; it has propelled them to the top terms of one box versatility, along with their excellent customer service. Trust me, not offering backwards compatible region flexibility on their upcoming Blu-ray player is a BIG loser for them.
Zone locking for Blu-ray is a totally different matter and is selective by rights holder, so it is far less critical for the consumer at this point, but even that can be by-passed if the customer is willing to double-down and invest in a modded player.
Your efforts to equate film lovers who enjoy foreign fare and demand region flexibility with bootleg enablers or pirates makes you appear foolish; if I were you I'd quit while you're behind (here's a clue: there is no 'ahead' for you on this topic).
AuPh
> > Oppo has been providing this function since they started manufacturing DVD players without incurring any legal penalties; it has propelled them to the top terms of one box versatility, along with their excellent customer service. < <
They managed to get around the rules because they weren't a major electronics manufacturer. Their popularity has put them on the map and unless they want to be wiped off of it, they'll play by the rules.
> > Trust me, not offering backwards compatible region flexibility on their upcoming Blu-ray player is a BIG loser for them. < <
Maybe among you malcontents and handwavers who whine on AVS all day, but not Oppo is still a winner to sane people.
> > Zone locking for Blu-ray is a totally different matter and is selective by rights holder, so it is far less critical for the consumer at this point, but even that can be by-passed if the customer is willing to double-down and invest in a modded player. < <
You are talking about a slim propeller hat wearing contingent of the DVD-buying public. That is your demographic. But don't assume it dictates market forces or distribution policy.
> > Your efforts to equate film lovers who enjoy foreign fare and demand region flexibility with bootleg enablers or pirates makes you appear foolish; < <
I'm not equating anyone. I'm saying it's stupid to buy a Region X DVD and expect to be able to play it in Region Y. I'm saying there are some players that will do that, but these are in violation of rules. That's a fact.
> > if I were you I'd quit while you're behind (here's a clue: there is no 'ahead' for you on this topic). < <
The format I adopted won and studios are distributing titles in the areas where they have rights...and will continue to do so as supported by electronics manufacturers and region encoding. That's reality. Run from it as fast as you can, stoner, but you'll never leave it behind.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Well, sort of...
> > > They managed to get around the rules because they weren't a major electronics manufacturer. Their popularity has put them on the map and unless they want to be wiped off of it, they'll play by the rules. < < <
That is irrelevant. If they were breaking the law, they would have been shut down. Note-they will not upscale over component as per the DVD consortium.
> > > Oppo is still a winner to sane people. < < <
I guess that rules out the folks at that circle jerk called Blu-ray.com.
Calling EE an "ever-so-slight glow effect" isn't what most people would call sane.
> > > I'm saying it's stupid to buy a Region X DVD and expect to be able to play it in Region Y < < <
That's why oppo was formed.
In the end, they will gain some customers from going BD, but they will lose some too, due to lack of multi-region. Actually, its price may turnj off quite a few old customers.
> > > The format I adopted won < < <
How is SACD doing these days?
Jack
> > That is irrelevant. If they were breaking the law, they would have been shut down. Note-they will not upscale over component as per the DVD consortium. < <
What makes you so sure they would have been shut down? They could have just been small potatoes, doing more good than harm to the stakeholders. Michael Phelphs wasn't prosecuted for smoking pot (thereby becoming even more of a hero to Auph), but would you say he didn't break the rules?
> > That's why oppo was formed. < <
"Based in the heart of Silicon Valley, award winning OPPO Digital, Inc., manufactures and markets high quality digital electronics that deliver style, performance, innovation, and value to A/V enthusiasts and savvy consumers alike. The company's attention to core product performance and strong customer focus distinguish it from traditional consumer-electronics brands." Doesn't say anything about being formed to ignore region encoding rules.
> > In the end, they will gain some customers from going BD, but they will lose some too, due to lack of multi-region. < <
Go look at the buying habits of the public and step outside your insular world of imports. The average consumer has never bought a DVD region-encoded outside the region where he lives. Meanwhile, BDs are still fairly new and already achieving double-digit portions of all home video sales. show me which of your import DVDs can claim such numbers.
> > How is SACD doing these days? < <
Fine. My SACD player plays all my digital music and I just bought a Coleman Hawkins SACD, Groove Armada SACD and DJ Krush SACD. looking forward to the MTT Mahler 8 to complete the SACD Mahler SFO cycle. Thanks for asking.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
> > > What makes you so sure they would have been shut down? They could have just been small potatoes, doing more good than harm to the stakeholders < < <
Small potatoes doesn't matter. Mom and Pop farmers selling umpasturized (but fresh from the cow) milk are getting shut down despite being small potatoes. Do you think college kids that were being prosecuted by the RIAA weren't small potatoes?
> > > . Michael Phelphs wasn't prosecuted for smoking pot (thereby becoming even more of a hero to Auph), but would you say he didn't break the rules? < < <
Phelps certainly isn't small potatoes, he's rich and famous. If that was me (small potatoes)in the picture, I'd be in jail.
> > > Doesn't say anything about being formed to ignore region encoding rules. < < <
Of course being you, you believe all sales hype. I have their first model, back when they only had one, it was sold specifically as a multi-region player-that was listed as a feature.
> > > look at the buying habits of the public...The average consumer has never bought a DVD region-encoded outside the region where he lives. < < <
You are probably right-I'll drive over to the nearest McDonald's and ask them.
> > > Meanwhile, BDs are still fairly new and already achieving double-digit portions < < <
Still going by profits I see. I'm still waiting for unit numbers.
> > > show me which of your import DVDs can claim such numbers. < < <
How do you think importers/distributors know what to import for R1? They look at what movies people like and are importing here from other regions. Do you really think the Vengeance Trilogy or the Infernal affairs trilogy would have been made into R1 if they weren't already hits as imports from other regions?
Are they as popular as Spiderman or Batman? No, but just because McDonald's sells alot of hamburgers, doesn't mean people should abandon 5 star restaurants.
Jack
> > Small potatoes doesn't matter. Mom and Pop farmers selling umpasturized (but fresh from the cow) milk are getting shut down despite being small potatoes. < <
Public safety is not small potatoes.
> > Do you think college kids that were being prosecuted by the RIAA weren't small potatoes?
I think 99.9% of college kids (or anyone else) illegally downloading or copying music and not paying for it got away with it. Napster, however, was shut down and a few thousand kids were prosecuted to try to scare others straight.
> > Phelps certainly isn't small potatoes, he's rich and famous. < <
I meant small potatoes in the law sense. The DA who had the authority to charge him with breaking drug laws said he wouldn't because he had a backlog of cases involving dealers and more hardened criminals. In that respect, Phelps was indeed small potatoes and the DA said as much.
> > If that was me (small potatoes)in the picture, I'd be in jail. < <
Lots of people like you (Auph for example) get stoned as a matter of routine and don't go to jail.
> > Of course being you, you believe all sales hype. < <
It was Oppo's mission statement. Your idea of their mission is to bring foreign-region DVDs to your screen, but if you think that's really their mission, you're projecting (no pun intended).
> > I have their first model, back when they only had one, it was sold specifically as a multi-region player-that was listed as a feature. < <
Then you bought into the sales hype, not me.
> > Still going by profits I see. I'm still waiting for unit numbers. < <
Why? DVDs can sell out in the dollar bins and still not bring in the bucks that BDs will soon command. The writing is on the wall. Read it.
> > How do you think importers/distributors know what to import for R1? They look at what movies people like and are importing here from other regions. < <
Importers cater to a small segment of the audience.
> > Do you really think the Vengeance Trilogy or the Infernal affairs trilogy would have been made into R1 if they weren't already hits as imports from other regions? < <
Of course they would. They're established international blockbusters.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
They certainly didn't do well in the theaters in the US. Of those 6, only Oldboy showed in the theaters in DC. Briefly. How many of those did YOU see in the theater? You never even heard of Infernal Affairs until it came out on BD. Probably the same with Oldboy.
You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
I'm through here.
Jack
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
;0)
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
... YOU have access to a bigger bong than Phelps and much stronger opiates! ;0)
> > > "What makes you so sure they would have been shut down?" < < <
Like you pointed out yourself, their base of operations is in California and they ship product from inside the U.S. even if it's manufactured in China. If Oppo had been violating any laws the studios and other hardware manufacturers would have been on them quicker that horse flies laying maggot eggs on your uninformed opinions!
> > > "Michael Phelphs wasn't prosecuted for smoking pot (thereby becoming even more of a hero to Auph), but would you say he didn't break the rules?" < < <
FYI, I'm neither an Olympic swimming fan nor an encourager of substance abuse (which is a bit off topic for this forum, don't you think?), but since you're flailing about in the shallow end I'll go this far: You do remind me a bit of the overzealous Sheriff who was raising a big public stink about the unfortunate Phelps photo just to get attention (in his case, to benefit politically from the publicity; in your's, who knows!).
> > > "'Based in the heart of Silicon Valley, award winning OPPO Digital, Inc., manufactures and markets high quality digital electronics that deliver style, performance, innovation, and value to A/V enthusiasts and savvy consumers alike. The company's attention to core product performance and strong customer focus distinguish it from traditional consumer-electronics brands.' Doesn't say anything about being formed to ignore region encoding rules." < < <
You really need to work up some new cheers if you're going to compete with the advertisers for attention around here; those pompoms of yours are looking a bit saggy.
I find it highly amusing that you would use Oppo's own advertising copy to try and spin your uninformed opinion. Not only are you tossing out advertising jargon to push your (naive?) POV without any empirical evidence to support it, but you're overlooking the company's word of mouth reputation for being the 'Swiss Army" DVD Player! As I see it, Oppo's success has been built around three things: 1) fast, friendly service, 2) providing region-free access via a simple menu key code flies in the face of your argument, and 3) lots of bang for the buck.
> > > "Go look at the buying habits of the public and step outside your insular world of imports. The average consumer has never bought a DVD region-encoded outside the region where he lives." < < <
Hello, Earth to Jazz Inmate? The not-so-average consumer is upwards of 50% of Oppo's customer base! Small specialty companies attract customers who seek a more diverse A/V experience than usually offered by most major brands, including but not limited to international entertainment. At a boutique price point, Oppo serves a more tweak-friendly, intellectually astute customer base with broader tastes (you being the possible exception).
> > > "Fine. My SACD player plays all my digital music and I just bought a Coleman Hawkins SACD, Groove Armada SACD and DJ Krush SACD. looking forward to the MTT Mahler 8 to complete the SACD Mahler SFO cycle. Thanks for asking." < < <
Great. OK, tell us again why you'd buy an overpriced Oppo BDP-83 that adds Blu-ray but takes away the key region unlocking feature if you already have a Blu-ray player and a nice SACD player (I assume that it's also an Oppo DVD player)?
AuPh
If they do it right, the new player from oppo will at least equal the PS3 in Blu-ray picture quality and equal (or better, as the ABT architecture has the ability to output DVDs at 1080p24) their own 983 in DVD picture quality. One box instead of two.
As for playback of all DVD regions, like I said many many moons ago, the BDA is not the group that oppo wants to piss off. They will either play nice or they may find that there's no playing at all. However, in another year or two, who knows? But again, DVD Decrypter/DVD Shrink (or other similar programs) can make up for a player not playing the original non-Region 1 discs and can make the disc play the way you want it to and without all of the restrictions.
Like you pointed out yourself, their base of operations is in California and they ship product from inside the U.S. even if it's manufactured in China. If Oppo had been violating any laws the studios and other hardware manufacturers would have been on them quicker that horse flies laying maggot eggs on your uninformed opinions!Again, Oppo was in violation, but at the time it was just a small company trying to compete with the jauggernauts. DVD sales were huge everywhere and the studios decided there was no reason to make Oppo conform. Now it's built a reputation and commands an important part of the disc player market. It has to play by the rules.
I find it highly amusing that you would use Oppo's own advertising copy to try and spin your uninformed opinion.
It's their mission statement, not ad copy. I just posted it because it clearly doesn't support Jack's assessment of Oppo's mission to bring non-region A movies to his screen.
Not only are you tossing out advertising jargon to push your (naive?) POV without any empirical evidence to support it, but you're overlooking the company's word of mouth reputation for being the 'Swiss Army" DVD Player!
Yeah, I understand you losers on AVS drooled all over their gear just because you could play any disc under the sun with it. But quality and customer support were always of more interest to me and many others.
As I see it, Oppo's success has been built around three things: 1) fast, friendly service, 2) providing region-free access via a simple menu key code flies in the face of your argument, and 3) lots of bang for the buck.
Ok, fine, I agree with that, but you have to face the fact that you were living on borrowed time with #2 because once Oppo got big enough it was gonna have to start playing by the rules. That time is now.
Hello, Earth to Jazz Inmate? The not-so-average consumer is upwards of 50% of Oppo's customer base!
That speaks to the point I made about Oppo being small potatoes. The company wants to grow and it is not going to do that by appealing strictly to import-loving propeller hat wearing AVS denizens.
Small specialty companies attract customers who seek a more diverse A/V experience than usually offered by most major brands, including but not limited to international entertainment. At a boutique price point, Oppo serves a more tweak-friendly, intellectually astute customer base with broader tastes (you being the possible exception).
As the owner of an integrated tube amp that lists for $19,000, I'm well aware that some companies are striving for producing specialty electronics for a niche market. Oppo never struck me like that. Oppo wants to be the leader in affordable disc machines. So far, they have been able to do that while maintaining tremendous quality and customer support. I hope it lasts, but I wouldn't bank on it forever.
Great. OK, tell us again why you'd buy an overpriced Oppo BDP-83 that adds Blu-ray but takes away the key region unlocking feature if you already have a Blu-ray player and a nice SACD player (I assume that it's also an Oppo DVD player)?
Actually it's a Classe Omega SACD-2, which most definitely is a nice SACD player. My hope is that the BDP-83 will have superior picture and sound to the PS3 and not give up much quality in SACD or CD to the SACD-2...in which case I could keep the Oppo, sell my Omega disc machine, move the PS3 to my other TV, and have about $3000 in my pocket and some extra room on my shelf. I don't need to worry about region-locked DVDs because I've had the foresight to not buy any.
-------------We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Edits: 02/20/09
...you apparently lack appreciation for any entertainment available from other regions. So, by pretending to take a superior ethical attitude it allows you to wallow in your own limited cultural sophistication while criticizing the tastes of others, right?
OK, I think we've got this sussed out! ;0)
Cheers,
AuPh
in my region.If I didn't, I'd fully expect my DVD player to not play the non-region A titles.
You should use similar logic going forward--assuming you're capable of logic.
-------------We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
Edits: 02/24/09
If you want to stick up for second rate performance then more power to you (the irony of your criticizing those who supported HD-DVD won't be lost on most of the folks who post here).
While I won't knock KINO's efforts to bring out quality fare, they too often do a half-assed job of it, ignoring progressive scan in favor of interlaced even after Eureka has released the same films properly and provided 'kewler' extras and better packaging.
But even that isn't the key issue with demanding region-free access. Here is a smattering of the Region 2 releases I am able to enjoy:
Spooks (released in edited form over here as MI-5, the series is more intense and makes a lot more sense in it's original form)
Sharpe's Rifles (entire series of films; apparently the transfer was screwed up when converted to NTSC; stick with the PAL)
Sherlock Holmes (entire series with Jeremy Brett; remastered; region 2 PAL looks great with really nice packaging)
Life On Mars (1st series; unedited PAL; WS)
Torchwood (unedited; WS, with all of the adult situations and humor intact)
The Sweeney (entire series; clever 70's police drama that was more sophisticated than any genre cop shows we were doing over here at the time)
Primeval (recent SF drama with special effects created by the Walking With Dinosaurs crew; great show)
Jekyll (awesome mini-series updating of Jeckyll/Hyde story; unedited PAL version is gripping)
Sapphire and Steele (quirky late 70's British SF/Fantasy/Horror series starring David McCallum that owes a lot to the Brothers Grimm)
Cracker (complete, UNEDITED, and non-PC British series featuring Robbie Coltrane; gritty and unflinching)
Blake's 7 (cheesy card-board FX wrapped around some of the best writing ever done in a character driven science fiction drama)
Movies:
L'Argent (Eureka release of French silent; is there an NTSC one?)
Faust (Murnau silent; latest Eureka release vastly superior to KINO; with better packaging & extras)
The Phantom Carriage (Sweedish classic silent; Tartan release; is there a U.S. release?)
This barely scratches the surface of my international collection; I could go on, but why should I waste my time trying to educate you when you obviously lack the interest to appreciate it?
If you expect me to feel some guilt over buying PAL region 2 cinema and television series that either aren't available here or have been released in badly edited/poorly transferred form then you're pretty darn clueless, not to mention more of a whiner than a film fan.
AuPh
That means no more interlaced, if that's your bone of contention with Kino.
Most of the folks who post here weren't stupid enough to adopt HD DVD. Not only did you adopt it, you kept supporting it, buying titles and hardware even after it went belly up. That kind of insanity isn't lost on the rest of us denizens. You accuse others of cheerleading and behaving irrationally, but you're the epitome of each.
Likewise you have clearly built an enormous collection of non-region A DVD releases that you are very proud of owning. Given that it will now be reissued in a superior format, I'm not sure why you cling to it like a baby koala to its mother. Sell it on ebay while you can still get a buck for it.
-------------
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. -Gandhi
You are not only clueless, you're apparently hopeless!
Let's do this s-l-o-w-l-y:
Many of the Region 2 PAL titles I've purchased have never been released over here in ANY format, so why should I expect Blu-ray releases anytime soon? Figure that one out and get beck to me when you actually have a clue, Sherlock!
> > > "Most of the folks who post here weren't stupid enough to adopt HD DVD." < < <
Most of those folks also bought Blu-ray and made it clear that they had no dog in that hunt other than supporting high definition and open region entertainment. The fact that some of us still have HD-DVD players and discs, enjoy them and have no regrets speaks better of the format than it does of your bias.
> > > "You accuse others of cheerleading..." < < <
No, not others, ...just you! ;^D
I would love to have a "reasonably" affordable one box solution, and it would be a bonus if it did SACD and DVD-A - especially since I'm not likely to purchase a SOTA hi rez universal player for my music alone. (Oh, and scaling would be nice too.)
But I really do want to cut down on boxes in the HT rig. It just probably won't be with a single Oppo. Unless the thing can be region hacked, I can't go there.
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