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This much anticipated title was released in both BD & HD, but apparently problems with the soundtrack on one of the formats has resulted in a recall even though lots of copies were shipped. Read the comments and judge for yourself.
Follow Ups:
that's pure speculation. Frankly, if I was Plant, I would never want this to see the light of day as his performance is abysmal and he parades his kids naked in front of the cameras. There isn't enough usable concert footage for a feature-length film. Thus the horrible intro footage and bizarre fantasy sequences. Getting back to the audio problem, many jazz remasters have dropouts not unlike this.Since you don't care about sound quality, the problem won't bother you. If you want my blu-ray copy it will be on ebay as soon as the remaining stock is gone from retailer bins. Some auctions have already ended in the neighborhood of $50.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
All I did was mention the discussion, linked it to provide useful information and then invited folks to draw their own conclusions.> > > "Since you don't care about sound quality, the problem won't bother you." < < <
Hmmm, well, I think folks might conclude that drop-outs of any kind on a high profile concert DVD are unacceptable; it's more than just a sound quality issue in the manner of perceived differences between DTS, Dolby, stereo, surround, lossless-HD, etc. Drop-outs are in another category altogether, because loss of the smallest portion of a recorded performance can drastically impact the enjoyment of listening to that particular section of music.
BTW, I never said that I don't care about SQ at all, but lossless audio isn't as high on my list of priorities as PQ, favorite movies, glitch-free performance and reasonable pricing. OTOH, when high quality sound is touted on both formats and a much anticipated concert title that's issued on both has noticeable drop-outs, but only on the format with the "all important" greater capacity, then something is obviously amiss.
> > > "If you want my blu-ray copy it will be on ebay as soon as the remaining stock is gone from retailer bins." < < <
LOL! Thanks, but NO THANKS! I have no dog in this hunt, but PLEASE keep that mutt quarantined! ;O)
I appreciate the offer, but should I decide to pick this puppy up it will be on HD.
> > > "Some auctions have already ended in the neighborhood of $50." < < <
Great! So, basically you've moth-balled your pompoms & blue spandex and you're coming around to the POV that Blu-ray discs should be regarded as rare collectors items, right? ;^D
AuPh
> > I have no dog in this hunt...but should I decide to pick this puppy up it will be on HD. < <
First of all, let's dispel your oft-repeated line that you have no dog in this hunt. I don't like cliches so let's say what you really mean. You're lying about supporting blu-ray and HD DVD equally. You don't support blu-ray at all, in fact, and though you pine about a universal player once in ever 5-10 posts, you actively attack those of us who do support blu-ray while you yourself only support HD DVD. Now that we've got your "dog in this hunt" lie out of the way, are you sure you can find the HD DVD version of Song Remains the Same?
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > "First of all, let's dispel your oft-repeated line that you have no dog in this hunt. I don't like cliches so let's say what you really mean. You're lying about supporting blu-ray and HD DVD equally." < < <Dispel all you want, but I don't recall ever saying anything about equal support, so you can take that accusation about lying and shove it where the blu-ray don't shine. I'm just not a single minded advocate or cheer-leader for a one format solution. BTW, leaning towards one format or the other objectively has nothing to do with outright advocacy and disinformation campaigns; that is your forte.
> > > "You don't support blu-ray at all, ..." < < <
What I don't support is Blu-ray advocacy using either industry generated propaganda or campaigns of disinformation pushing intangibles such as unused capacity and over-hyping of lossless sound; BTW, I don't support ZS KEKL's heavy handed HD-DVD advocacy either.
> > > "...you pine about a universal player once in ever 5-10 posts, you actively attack those of us who do support blu-ray while you yourself only support HD DVD." < < <
Well, at least you noticed the fact that I have endorsed dual format players as a logical and practical solution to the on-going frustration of continuing down the path of a stalemated format war (I'm actually impressed that something I've stated finally penetrated that thick noggin of your's). Heh, heh, clever use of the word "pine" since all of your 'understated' support involves shoving HD-DVD into a pine box, even though it currently appears to be the format with the least glitches and greater region friendliness.
> > > "Now that we've got your "dog in this hunt" lie out of the way, are you sure you can find the HD DVD version of Song Remains the Same?" < < <
Sorry bubba, that dog is still hunting, but Rover knows the scent of a skunk when one crosses his path. This is one instance where sticking your head back up your arse might actually improve your subtlety Jazz! ;0)
BTW, The Song Remains the Same was released on both formats albeit briefly; both high definition releases apparently were pulled quickly because distributors jumped the gun & after complaints came in about the Blu-ray releases 'lossless' track having drop-outs (losses? -grin). Like I said, if I want one, I'll look for the HD-DVD.
So, Jazz, are you still keeping that blue spandex leotard at the ready or what? :O)
Cheers,
AuPh
> > Dispel all you want, but I don't recall ever saying anything about equal support, < <Well, einstein, when you say "no dog in this hunt" it infers that you support all the little doggies equally. Which in your case is a blatant lie.
> > so you can take that accusation about lying and shove it where the blu-ray don't shine. < <
Maybe you should avoid cliches, as they really don't let you articulate your position. The fact is that you're an HD DVD die-hard supporter who aggressively attacks blu-ray supporters.
> > I'm just not a single minded advocate or cheer-leader for a one format solution. < <
But you do. Stop lying.
> > BTW, leaning towards one format or the other objectively has nothing to do with outright advocacy and disinformation campaigns; that is your forte. < <
My forte is to hammer the capacity issue, which I think is critically important for optical formats that will soon be competing with downloadable HD technologies.
> > > "You don't support blu-ray at all, ..." < < < What I don't support is Blu-ray advocacy using either industry generated propaganda or campaigns of disinformation pushing intangibles such as unused capacity and over-hyping of lossless sound; BTW, I don't support ZS KEKL's heavy handed HD-DVD advocacy either. < <
Sorry, but the fact remains that you don't support blu-ray at all, and that your continued lies aren't helping you. You have essentially made yourself KEKLesque, as you two are the main fools who have compared me to a cheerleader for speaking about the technical merits of formats I have chosen to adopt and their advantages over the merits of formats I have chosen to not adopt. You SAY you're inclined to adopt blu-ray, but until that magical, mystical, majestic moment actually happens, you are a blithering HD DVD fanatic who has not lifted a finger to support blu-ray and who actively recommends ignoring the unavoidable fact that it offers 20 gigs greater capacity than your preferred format. All because you could adopt HD DVD on the cheap and watch casablanca and star trek, or some such nonsense.
> > Well, at least you noticed the fact that I have endorsed dual format players as a logical and practical solution < <
Talk is cheap, auphl. Let me know when you get a universal player and start collecting blu-rays. Then at least I won't see you as a complete hypocrite, which is what you've made yourself at present.
> > BTW, the HD-DVD of Song Remains the Same was released on both formats albeit briefly; < <
No. It was yanked prior to release on either format, but some stock was shipped prior to release date, as always. Retailers should not have sold even one copy.
> > both high definition releases apparently were pulled quickly because distributors jumped the gun & after complaints came in about the Blu-ray releases 'lossless' track having drop-outs < <
That's pure conjecture and totally uncorroborated. If you want my opinion, Plant/Page pulled the plug as they have been wont to do on a variety of projects that didn't involve their input from the start.
> > Like I said, if I want one, I'll look for the HD-DVD. < <
Oh, I know. Because you DO have a dog in the hunt or, to avoid cliches, you're an active HD DVD fan who avoids blu-ray and attacks adopters of the latter while lying about his real level of support.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > "Well, einstein, when you say "no dog in this hunt" it infers that you support all the little doggies equally." < < <No 'Goober', what it means is that I don't have an agenda that supports one format to the total exclusion or elimination of the other and I'm not being paid by anyone to express my views. Few folks around here 'doggedly' support either format with the unmitigated hubris that you've demonstrated time and again.
> > > "The fact is that you're an HD DVD die-hard supporter who aggressively attacks blu-ray supporters." < < <
Do you take 'relish' with that 'baloney'?
> > > "My forte is to hammer the capacity issue, which I think is critically important for optical formats that will soon be competing with down-loadable HD technologies." < < <
Since you use a jack-hammer one would expect you to know jack and make concrete points, but alas ...! ;0)
> > > "Sorry, but the fact remains that you don't support blu-ray at all, and that your continued lies aren't helping you." < < <
I don't support either format to the exclusion of the other, but I have a preference for any HD format that has my favorite titles. Jazzbo, just a word of advice: Your continued allusion to my being dishonest is only making you and your rabid cheer-leading for Blu-ray look ugly.
Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if SONY emailed a request for you to step down as their 'unofficial' on-line spokesperson! Note: If you were a volunteer blogging for a political campaign you would've been given the boot already for jeopardizing the candidate's chances (even though in consideration of your political persuasion it would probably be a Red state rather than Blue!). :O)
> > > "You SAY you're inclined to adopt blu-ray, but until that magical, mystical, majestic moment actually happens, you are a blithering HD DVD fanatic who has not lifted a finger to support blu-ray and who actively recommends ignoring the unavoidable fact that it offers 20 gigs greater capacity than your preferred format." < < <
What I'm in favor of is a dual format solution. How many times and in what language do you need to be told that capacity doesn't matter if it isn't used? If you weren't in denial of this fact maybe you'd at least make an effort to admit this to yourself. IMO, what matters most to consumers is improvement in picture and sound quality, reasonable pricing, fast dependable play, elimination of hardware glitches, and meeting release dates without delayed or withdrawn titles.
> > > "All because you could adopt HD DVD on the cheap and watch casablanca and star trek, or some such nonsense." < < <
Many others too, but if it isn't about the entertainment that the consumer wants then what IS it about, in your 'esteemed' opinion?
> > > "Let me know when you get a universal player and start collecting blu-rays." < < <
When the right time comes I'll certainly be looking for one, but so far Blu-ray hasn't offered enough exclusive titles of interest for me to pull the trigger. Warner switching from dual inventory releases to Blu-ray exclusively might provide the impetus, but if the WB goes HD, then it's a whole different ball game (if that occurs the Blue camp may have to dig in for a long cold winter).
> > > "Then at least I won't see you as a complete hypocrite, which is what you've made yourself at present." < < <
I couldn't care less how you see me, especially since you seem to view the world through a blue haze and suffer from acute tunnel-vision! ;^D
> > > "No. It was yanked prior to release on either format, but some stock was shipped prior to release date, as always. Retailers should not have sold even one copy." < < <
True, because the drop-outs apparently embarrassed the blue fan-boys and pompom shakers in your camp with some justification; bummer.
> > > "That's pure conjecture and totally uncorroborated. If you want my opinion, Plant/Page pulled the plug as they have been wont to do on a variety of projects that didn't involve their input from the start." < < <
WOW! Talk about conjecture! Page was on board initially, so why would anyone involved with the project pull the title unless there were mastering problems on one or both formats?
Personally, it's reasonable to assume that the "lossless" drop-outs on the Blu-ray release are sufficient cause to withhold and perhaps reissue if the problem is corrected. However, we have your 'inscrutable' opinion to rely on and provide us with the deep insight that Jimmy Page probably threw a hissy-fit and pulled the plug because he wasn't sufficiently involved! How can anyone possibly think otherwise? ;0)
> > > "(Like I said, if I want one, I'll look for the HD-DVD) - Oh, I know. Because you DO have a dog in the hunt or, to avoid cliches, you're an active HD DVD fan who avoids blu-ray and attacks adopters of the latter while lying about his real level of support." < < <
Actually, if I were going to purchase this title I'd buy the HD-DVD because it apparently doesn't have any music drop-outs and I'm set-up to play it right now. Don't worry Jazz, I'm sure that you'll be able to sell your copy on eBay or Amazon; I'm sure that there are lots of fan-boys out there who would snap that mangy pup right up from their mentor! :O)
Cheers,
AuPh
> > No 'Goober', what it means is that I don't have an agenda that supports one format to the total exclusion or elimination of the other < <But isn't that exactly what your de facto position is? Doesn't your monetary support exclusively go to the HD DVD format? Don't you attack me and Ole and others who try to point out blu-ray's advantages and domination of the next-gen DVD market?
Er...yes, that is EXACTLY your position. And when you say you don't have agenda it is, in fact, a blatant lie. You may not want to have an agenda. You may have even convinced yourself you don't have an agenda. But you very obviously and overtly DO have an agenda.
> > I don't support either format to the exclusion of the other, < <
Oh no? Where's your blu-ray player, then? How many BDs do you own? Why can't you even acknowledge that HD DVD has woefully less capacity than blu-ray? The answers to these questions prove that you, in fact, DO support HD DVD to the exclusion of blu-ray. The more you say you don't, the more you make a liar of yourself.
> > Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if SONY emailed a request for you to step down as their 'unofficial' on-line spokesperson! < <
Well it should surprise you.
> > Note: If you were a volunteer blogging for a political campaign you would've been given the boot already for jeopardizing the candidate's chances (even though in consideration of your political persuasion it would probably be a Red state rather than Blue!). < <
Yeah, i recognize that my posting style turns a lot of people off, but that's how I express myself. I just can't believe that supposedly intelligent people like you who care about audio quality and optical HD formats would go out and adopt a technology that offers 30 gigs capacity when a more successful format exists offering 50 gigs capacity, knowing that both formats will soon be competing with downloadable HD content. I mean, you must have rocks in your head to make that choice for one or two titles and a cheap Toshiba machine. And then to continually lie and say you support both while you don't, and you can't even acknowledge the critical element of the capacity issue? It's *really* weird, auphl.
> > What I'm in favor of is a dual format solution. < <
Then you haven't learned anything from the DVD-A and SACD situation. Here we had a superior format and an inferior one, creating confusion in the marketplace. The general public didn't know which to adopt, even if they were interested. Different labels and manufacturers aligned with different formats. Yeah, universal machines were out there, but it couldn't bridge the gap. Downloadable music came along and pretty much put an end to both.
If you can't see the very real possibility that could happen to HD video, you're not terribly astute. By advocating your "two format solution", you are essentially advocating intransigence among studios, manufacturers, consumers and, ultimately, death to optical formats. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to align firmly behind one format and support it exclusively and make sure studios and manufacturers follow suit so that the mass consumer has a clear upgrade path to HD. You support muddying and bifurcating that path.
> > How many times and in what language do you need to be told that capacity doesn't matter if it isn't used? < <
How many times and in what language do you need to be told that capacity does matter and is being used, and that HD audio (esp lossless) and video requires large amounts of gigs.
> > WOW! Talk about conjecture! Page was on board initially, < <
Link? Source?
> > Personally, it's reasonable to assume that the "lossless" drop-outs on the Blu-ray release < <
Are they only on the BD release? Isn't the same content used to produce both the HD DVD and Blu-ray?
> > are sufficient cause to withhold and perhaps reissue if the problem is corrected. However, we have your 'inscrutable' opinion to rely on and provide us with the deep insight that Jimmy Page probably threw a hissy-fit and pulled the plug because he wasn't sufficiently involved! How can anyone possibly think otherwise? < <
I didn't specify Page. I said Page/Plant have a long history of such hissy fits, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were the reason for the cancellation. Note that the HD DVD was yanked too. You read one post on one website and the ensuing circle-jerk thread and you think you know what you're talking about. You don't. While I'll be the first to admit I don't know the reason Warner yanked this title, I offered an alternate possible explanation--not for you to criticize (though you're welcome to waste your time doing so)--but because there could be any of a multitude of reasons for the cancelled release. We just don't know the reason yet. Warner has issued no such statement.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > "But isn't that exactly what your de facto position is? Doesn't your monetary support exclusively go to the HD DVD format?" < < <Is de facto anything like your de Nile, because anyone can play that kind of subjective opinion game!? If by monetary support you mean buying movies I like, I plead no contest; if you mean donations made to a one format cause, nope.
> > > "...you haven't learned anything from the DVD-A and SACD situation. Here we had a superior format and an inferior one, creating confusion in the marketplace." < < <
Comparing the audio format war to the video format war is a serious error because there are other factors to be taken into account with high definition such as the government mandated analog/digital changeover. The DVD-A/SACD war was over competing audio technologies that required 5.1 speakers to be fully appreciated as being superior to CD. Arguably the new technologies didn't better CDs enough to make the investment in surround speakers and associated gear worthwhile for Joe Consumer, and analog audio (LPs) still sounded better to most audiophiles.
> > > "The general public didn't know which to adopt, even if they were interested. Different labels and manufacturers aligned with different formats. Yeah, universal machines were out there, but it couldn't bridge the gap. Downloadable music came along and pretty much put an end to both." < < <
Downloadable music provides a convenience factor that most on-the-go younger listeners can relate to better than middle-aged audiophiles. Dual format SACD/DVD-A players did bridge the gap, but the prices took too long to come down and they had little impact because the interest in those formats never reached the threshold of mass acceptance.
> > > "If you can't see the very real possibility that could happen to HD video, you're not terribly astute. By advocating your 'two format solution', you are essentially advocating intransigence among studios, manufacturers, consumers and, ultimately, death to optical formats. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to align firmly behind one format and support it exclusively and make sure studios and manufacturers follow suit so that the mass consumer has a clear upgrade path to HD. You support muddying and bifurcating that path." < < <
Balderdash!
Of course anything can happen, but taking a "Chicken Little" approach to the format war isn't my cuppa tea. I'm convinced that competition will bring the price of both of these formats down, that includes the hardware and video, and push the technological advances. The lowering of prices is what will get Joe Public to accept one or both of the formats, as early adopters have done.
> > > "Are they only on the BD release? Isn't the same content used to produce both the HD DVD and Blu-ray?" < < <
You obviously haven't read the threads from those who have bought both. Yes, the content is the same and the lossless audio is fine on the HD-DVD, but there's apparently a glitch on the Blu-ray that produces drop-outs. One has to wonder if this could be a problem with Blu-ray mastering or the ability to utilize lossless audio; maybe with so much capacity John Bonham's drum whacks on Moby Dick just got lost in all that unused gigabyte space! ;0)
Have a Happy Blue Year (but don't drink the blue Kool Aid),
AuPh
> > If by monetary support you mean buying movies I like, I plead no contest; if you mean donations made to a one format cause, nope. < <Oh, cut the crap already. You support one format and one format only: HD DVD. Exclusively. I've read your take on many movies you gush over on the film forum. The Pirates films, for example. You like 'em a lot and there's no doubt that you'd buy them if they were on HD DVD. You are an exclusive fanboy and for much worse reasons than you think I'm a fanboy. The problem with you is that you're either too stupid or too dishonest to admit it to yourself and so it's no wonder you can't admit it to anyone else.
> > Comparing the audio format war to the video format war is a serious error because there are other factors to be taken into account with high definition such as the government mandated analog/digital changeover. < <
That affects TVs, auphl. It no way affects or mandates consumer's buying a next-gen DVD format, and if you read the business page of the NYT today, you'd see a very stern article that basically warns against adopting either format and claims that most HDTV owners are perfectly happy with DVD. You add into the mix new chips that Intel is coming out with, and a method to download huge amounts of data quickly and there is absolutely every reason to think optical formats are dead as far as HD films are concerned.
> > Dual format SACD/DVD-A players did bridge the gap, but the prices took too long to come down and they had little impact because the interest in those formats never reached the threshold of mass acceptance. < <
There was a $200 universal player fairly early in the game. It didn't help. You need to push one format and support it or there will be intransigence in the market and the formats will fail. The studios will need to aggressively manufacture and market a next-gen DVD format and start phasing out DVD if the optical formats are going to have a chance against MS's vision for downloadable HD films.
edit: and one more thing. I asked you for a link, an official statement from Warner or some other official source stating that, as you claim, SRtS was yanked due to the dropout. Not only did you link me to a page that doesn't exist, but the URL indicated that it was a blog. This is a serious problem with you HD DVD types. You get all your info from blogs and you think it's a valid source. You're fools.
-------------
"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I did not state that my link would provide an official explanation of the reason for the withdrawal of the high definition releases. What I stated was that Jimmy Page was on board for the HD releases; you requested a link of the source. Here is the exchange to reboot your memory 'Dory':(my comment) "WOW! Talk about conjecture! Page was on board initially, ..."
(your response) > > > "Link? Source?" < < <
Another 'more official' source (Audio/Video News) has been linked in that post since you're having difficulty accessing the earlier blog entry that supplies similar information.
However, you also stated:
> > > "Are they only on the BD release? Isn't the same content used to produce both the HD DVD and Blu-ray?" < < <
Below is a link to testimonials that supports the assertion that the drop-outs are only on Blu-ray discs (or is it that only drop-outs apply as fan-boys for Blu-ray? I'm not sure which observation is more applicable at the moment! -grin):
> > I did not state that my link would provide an official explanation of the reason for the withdrawal of the high definition releases. < <But that's what i asked for. Your ideas are based on people who couldn't possibly know why Warner cancelled/delayed release of SRtS and asked for a link/source that could corroborate your idea. You constantly make assertions that you are not prepared to back up. When you do try to back them up, you link me to blogs. I'm not interested in that.
> > Another 'more official' source (Audio/Video News) has been linked in that post since you're having difficulty accessing the earlier blog entry that supplies similar information. < <
I don't see any link in the page you linked me to. Nothing official whatsoever. And if you did have a "more official source", you'd link me to that. You can't.
> > Below is a link to testimonials that supports the assertion that the drop-outs are only on Blu-ray discs! < <
If so, it's more evidence that Warner isn't paying attention to quality when porting over the HD DVD content to produce its BDs.
:o)
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
The latest Warner f*ckups tend to keep me gunshy on rushing out the door to get the latest releases. I think I'd rather wait for the scuttlebutt on each release before I dive in.
Led Zeppelin was definitely on my short list; and no 8 second dropouts for me.
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