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12.146.151.254
I hear the death knell for HD DVD off in the distance, thankfully.
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Warner Bros to back Blu-ray exclusively: sources
21 minutes ago
NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Time Warner's (TWX.N) Warner Bros studio plans to announce it will release next generation DVDs on Sony Corp's (6758.T) Blu-ray format exclusively, two sources familiar with the plans said on Friday, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's (6502.T)HD DVD format.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080104/tc_nm/warner_sony_dc_1;_ylt=Ag8iozIxpDWSPA8_wfFNcosE1vAI (Open in New Window)
Follow Ups:
Drop VC-1 in favor of AVC and begin using DTS-HD Master Audio or use Dolby TrueHD with Dialog Normalization set to -31dB (the OFF setting) like Sony has been doing with their Blu-ray titles.
As I said months ago, even if DTS includes a Dialog Normalization control in their encoder (they do), because they are more quality oriented than Dolby, it would be set to OFF as the default (it's been confirmed the default is OFF). The goal of a lossless codec is to be a mirror image of the master after decompression. If the volume of the decompressed lossless soundtrack is lower than its PCM counterpart, then something is wrong. Dialog Normalization re-encodes the feed of the master soundtrack in order to use digital manipulation (digital volume control): it is therefore no longer lossless! Dolby crippled their encoder by forcing Dialog Normalization to default to -27dB (it's always ON, unless the engineer manually sets it to -31dB, which is OFF).
I've written to them, requesting as much. I encourage you to do the same.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
New Line released Shoot 'Em Up and the encode numbers speak for themselves. If I had to guess, I'd say that Microsoft is behind the low bitrate crap. They tweaked and tweaked VC-1 until they got the bitrate to a bare minimum (due to less bandwidth and less storage capacity than Blu-ray) so that Warner Bros would continue using VC-1 and stay with HD DVD releases. Warner Bros needs to drop the Microsoft assistance with their encodes or switch to AVC.
Do I hear 'format war over'?
- http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20080104005575&newsLang=en (Open in New Window)
> > Do I hear 'format war over'? < <
I don't think so. Now that there are no longer any fence-straddlers, the format war will likely intensify, at least for a little while.
Let's see how many BOGOs we get in the future.
Jack
I'd agree that this is a decisive win for Blu-Ray, but Blu-Ray is still competing against the proverbial 800 lb gorilla: DVD. This will keep them honest, and keep pressure on Sony et al to broaden Blu-Ray's appeal. And Blu-Ray really needs to knock more people's socks off and more consistently than it has been, because let's face it, some transfers scarcely look better than their DVD counterparts, and folks notice that sort of thing immediately.
As Oscar said, they are going to have to add value either perceived or real, to get people to buy into it. They are also going to have to lower prices dramatically for both hardware and software. And they are also going to have to be alot better and clearer about video profiles. We'll have to see what CES brings next week. Marantz is introducing a new player, but I heard it was basically a rebranded Denon. It won't be cheap.
Lets see how thing go.
Jack
Audio and video quality are a big part of it, but the overall Blu-Ray experience needs to have a certain "wow" quality: Not much fun to pay $25 for a movie only to find what few bonus features it has are poorly presented, and rather than the little movie-specific booklet, just a generic leaflet extolling the virtues of Blu-Ray. It's like buying a first-class ticket but getting economy-class service. The overall buzz I've gotten to date about Blu-Ray (and HD DVD for that matter) has been positive, but not overwhelmingly so, and it's now up to the Blu-Ray camp to pick up that slack.I'm not sure that the public as a whole wants to know about B-D Profile 1.0 vs 1.1. In fact, I thought Toshiba erred by treating HD DVD too much like a computer product and freely issuing firmware updates every couple of months. Far better that movies remain backwards-compatible with 1.0 players aside maybe for more advanced bonus content, and best to ease into that gently since some folks are still paying for their 1.0 players.
PLAYER prices need to reach a point where more folks are willing to take their chances, but the movies themselves don't need to go head-to-head with heavily discounted DVDs. That will take care of itself as the B-D market grows and economies of scale kick in.
I've this quesy feeling the newer 1.1/2.0/whatever Blu-ray discs may force periodic updates on 1.0 players to allow playback.
The November '07 Fox titles also forced a firmware fix probably related to first use of BD+; I don't know much about how BD+ works but will it force a firmware update every time they change the BD+ protection scheme ? Or has Fox given up on ever making it effective ?
My player has already been discontinued with warranty to expire within a couple of months. I wonder how long LG will continue to provide firmware updates to support evolving blu-ray discs ?
Even though my Sharp BD player was made with the original BD+ programing in it, They did recently have to put out a FW update, or the new (December) Fox discs wouldn't play-they would read then shut off. Next week, Sunshine, a Fox title and the first 1.1 title, will be out. It could be interesting.
Jack
Thanks for the heads up.
.
> > > Not much fun to pay $25 for a movie only to find what few bonus features it has are poorly presented, and rather than the little movie-specific booklet, just a generic leaflet extolling the virtues of Blu-Ray. It's like buying a first-class ticket but getting economy-class service. < < <
Tell that to Fox, who's $40 Bds frequently have less features than the corresponding DVD.
But eventually the CE manufacturers will compete with each other for market share (just like with DVD).
I think part of Warner's decision is based on the development in BDA profiles. I imagine a prerequisite for their decision was knowing in advance of BDA player announcements prior to CES. I don't particularly care for PIP/IME/frills but Warner, Disney et al seem to think these are vital selling points.
DVD market is already saturated (hence reason for DVD sales decline). Blu-ray will still have to show some value added (probably more than picture/sound quality improvements) to get DVD content owners to doubledip; especially with higher HD media prices.
For the movie, a 50GB Blu-ray disc with a DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack mated to a high bitrate AVC video encode. Couldn't get any better than that with today's technology. Any bandwidth that's still available and any room that's left over on the disc after that or a BD25/BD9 could be used for the extras (depending on how much space the extras needed).
A world of video bitrate-starved, mediocre Universal and Warner releases on 30G discs was not my idea of HD media heaven. "Bourne Ultimatum" and "Transformers" turned out to be pretty good transfers but these were the exception in my meager HD DVD collection.
Audio-wise, lossless/uncompressed PCM was 2D4. This is the main reason my HD DVD collection is limited; not enough desirable movies with lossless/uncompressed audio tracks. Also, the possibility of 5.1 24/96 PCM (or higher), high-def music videos was far more likely with Blu-ray because of HD DVD's bandwidth limitations.
They need to make more players that will decode DTS-HDMA instead of just streaming it. Not everyone will want to buy a new receiver just for that.
BTW, how many titles actually use the 50Gigs of space? We already know half are on BD-25s, so I'm guessing not that many.
Jack
As of today, 50.35% of Blu-ray releases are using 50GB discs. This is from the stats site that I posted a while back. That's a strong showing for "vaporware", don't ya think?
:-)
As to DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, the blame lies equally with DTS and the chip manufacturers. DTS: they said it would take more processing power than DTS-HD High Resolution (which manufacturers knew the numbers for), but they didn't say how much more. Chip manufacturers: they should have pressed DTS for better info or at least designed their chips with significantly more processing power. By the way, Keith Jack of Sigma Designs admits that his company dropped the ball. I'll cut him some slack -- they only deserve half of the blame.
Scroll way, way down past that ever growing number of Blu-ray discs to see the
Lets see if it stays over 50% with next week's titles coming out. Care to tell me why the BCI double features are 2 disc sets? The movies aren't very long ( <90 mins), and I doubt there are very many extras. And, as I asked before, but was never answered, "how many titles actually use the 50Gigs?".
Jack
None.But you know as well as I do that studios like to give us useless crap (ie, just look at DVD). Better to have the space and bandwidth to accomodate their desire to include the crap than to lose things that should be there in the first place (lossless audio, for one). By the way, how many DVDs utilized the entire capacity of the format. Hint: none.
Question: you're not implying that having 50GB of storage space has a downside now, are you?
> > > Question: you're not implying that having 50GB of storage space has a downside now, are you? < < <
Outside of possibly lower replication yields, no. But, if its not used, its not an advantage either. This only supports my opinion that generally speaking storage space isn't really a factor in quality either way.
Jack
If over 50% of the movies are using the 50GB discs, then it's a necessity. These movies obviously needed more than 25GB to satisfy what the studio wanted to include for that particular title and satisfy storage and bandwidth requirements. Otherwise, compromises have to be made and audiophiles/videophiles know what that means (quality is the first to take the hit, not content).
"if its not used, its not an advantage either."
If studios are using 50GB discs, then they need them. The fact that over 50% of Blu-ray discs are 50GB versions means the capacity really is needed. And what studio would pay for a 50GB disc when it only needs <25GB to satisfy the above requirements?
Microsoft is never going to tell how many HD DVD encodes they have done which would have benefitted from a higher bandwidth ceiling and/or more storage capacity (at least not truthfully). One can only speculate that there were movies produced that bandwidth and storage capacity played a part in what was the final product. With 50GB of storage and a higher bandwidth ceiling, that type of speculation isn't part of the Blu-ray specs.
Is it really a necessity? Are they using BD-50s on all of those titles now because that have to or just because they can? We'll never know.
Jack
Do you really think that any of the "Lord of the Rings" movies (the extended aka real editions) are better suited to HD DVD than Blu-ray when discussing audio/video quality?
The point is, it's there if it's needed. If it were needed on HD DVD, it's not there -- neither bandwidth nor storage space, hence compromises would have to be made for some movies. The facts are what they are: this discussion has become circular.
I'm done.
I think you are right, as always, and I believe my 90 days to exchange my HD player to Costco just expired.
Now, how about some interesting movies on BD besides the typical summer popcorn CGI special effects laden action adventure movies that appeal mostly to a 16 year old American male with raging harmones. There are vaults filled with decades of quality intelligent films yet to be released even on DVD. Films for the rest of us.
I have 85 HD DVDs, but only 25 BDs (including 5 freebies). Of all of the titles announced for Q1 of '08, I have 3 BDs on preorder. That's pretty sad.
If they don't stop catering to gamers, people will stick with DVDs.
Jack
Unfortunately, indifferent attention to PQ/SQ resulted in mediocre transfers not worthy of HD media.
HD DVD players should be good for several years and you should be able to continue to enjoy your HD DVD software investment. In fact, I might just take full advantage of HD DVD hardware/software firesales. I have a dual format player and a (backup) toshiba HD-A2 player to play with. With proper care, the HD DVD software should last forever and the only source player I've had crap out on me is the Philips SACD1000 player (I guess your experience has been different).
"Buy two, get one!" I.e., we used to get two hi-def discs for what one will cost.
Seriously, I have no hi-def player, no hi-def display, but I just picked up 4 hi-def discs (Troy, The Departed, 300, The Wild Bunch) on Amazon's latest BOGO sale. On the sale, two discs averaged out to 12.00 per disc, and then I ordered two more, averaging out to 10.00.
That's total cost. No tax, and no shipping (since order "theoretically" or actually exceeded $25.00). I just couldn't pass these up at this price.
I don't care to mention what format I bought, because I'm no fan-boy, but it's not hard to figure it out. I'm just hedgin' my bets.
Along with you, Jack, I fear that Sony's monopoly on hi-def, should it play out that way, could be costlier to consumers. The manufacturing cost of blu-ray is considerably higher than HD DVD, so there aren't any savings to pass on to consumers on the software side.
So it's a catch 22 . . . glad there may be movement toward one format, saddened this format war won't drag out longer, because I do think there was some advantage (e.g., BOGOS, rapidly declining hi-def player cost, etc.) for us consumers.
I'm not singing the blues for HD DVD, but HD DVD does have a tougher road to sled.
I ordered six (6) more Blu-rays at $14.00 apiece to add to the stockpile of Blu-ray movies sitting on shelf waiting to be unwrapped. I may dive it again with the cheaper catalog $10.00 movies in a couple of days. I agree the BOGOs will probably disappear (or at least frequency reduced) when it becomes clear HD DVD is fading away.
You are clever.
This has been my concern as well. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if SONY slows down it's progress if the competition dries up. If there's only one format I don't expect prices will come down much on hardware or Blu-ray discs in the near future as SONY tries to recoup losses from the HD-DVD 'surge' late last year.
We live in interesting times!
AuPh
Sony which is also a movie studio owns most of the BD replicators, especially the ones that make BD-50s, that all studios have to use. This means that they basically have control over their competitors output. That can't be good.
Jack
just like it did with that other "monopoly" format, DVD. With HD DVD on the doldrums, there might be a slight price rise with profile 1.1 players while the 1.0 profile players will be "closed out" fairly quickly (and maybe a great deal for Blu-ray challenged owners of HDTVs....).
I'll be surprised if you can't buy a profile 1.1 Blu-ray player for less than $300 within 6 months. But we should wait for CES to see what new toys are coming out.
Along with Sony's superior support of SACD? I'll pass on Sony branded products and one day buy a BR player if and when one of the higher end companies offers one. Think Meridian and the like.
Consumer branded electronics that you can buy at Best Buy or Circuit City don't hold my interest.
At least perhaps we're at a point where a final decision will be made for one format.
to High End companies participating in the next gen optical format. They tend to be smaller companies with less capital for investment, hence risk plays a major part in the direction they take. If they clearly see one side of the fork in the road disolving, they are more likely to put the effort into poducing a product.
The HIgh end companies are sitting on the sidelines waiting for convincing evidence that at least one of the formats will survive before they think about investing resources in developing a player. Warner's defection to Blu-ray is highly suggestive that Blu-ray will survive for the long-term and may trigger high end company investment in the format. I was talking to a dealer about this and he indicated he has been asked to help lobby a high end company manufacturer (at CES) to begin work on a Blu-ray player.
as we said pretty much the same thing. Oh, well.
they've got two very nice blu-ray players on the horizon, at approximately MRSP 2,000 and 1,000 respectively.
IIRC, Marantz may have one coming out, and Onkyo too! I recognize these might not be "high" enough for you! Understandable . . . Meridian makes great gear.
- http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/denon-intros-two-new-high-end-blu-ray-players/ (Open in New Window)
The Denon DVD 5910CI (DVD-A1XV) is as good as DVD gets and if they make a BluRay player with the same upscaled DVD replay as the DVD-A1XV then even I would be interested, but it would be interesting to see how much difference there is between upscaled DVD and BluRay through the same Denon on a 42" 0r 50" display.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
I think Toshiba will release Paramount from the contract and make Blu ray players asap. More profits in USD299 players than in USD199.
Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Paramount knew the risks.
OTOH, this will all be for naught, if the players are overpriced, and the discs are all priced like Fox's. There's still a long way to go for mass adoption.
Jack
The whole point of Blu Ray is to make more money.
If they get greedy, the masses won't buy into it. Remember, most people are very happy with DVD. If the BDA continues their attitude that its an honor to buy from them, at high prices, they will fail, and be a niche product. BD could still be the next laser disc.
Jack
Just because DVD is dirt cheap now doesn't mean Blu-ray is priced unreasonably. DVD prices fell and so will BD prices.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
When DVD came out, the difference between it and VHS in quality and *convenience* were quite obvious-it also had no real competition. BDs gains aren't quite as dramatic, no plus for convenience, better quality but many don't think its worth it. There's also HD cable, HD satalite, and HD VOD competing with BD.
We'll have to see about prices.
Jack
Prices are high at the outset and then come down. That's the nature of technology. I never suggested that every other market parameter was identical, but to ignore the obvious fact that prices on new technologies are high upon introduction and gradually fall is pure idiocy. Blaming a new technology for high prices is like blaming a baby for its inability to walk. As for that, prices are falling quickly as we're seeing with some announcements at CES this morning. More quickly than SACD, which had a $5000 flagship player and $24 media.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
...and no-one I know has ever complained that DVD picture isn't good enough or that the sound isn't good enough.
BluRay cannot survive long term unless titles are released only on BluRay, otherwise it will remain a niche product for enthusiasts like SACD and certainly not a replacement for DVD.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Don't bet on it. HD-DVD is still a Microsoft venture and Bill Gates doesn't take losing gracefully. It wouldn't surprise me if he still has a rabbit or two in his hat to pull out. ;0)AuPh
Not worrying about DVD's.
Unless he's secretly working for Apple.
MS was fighting with Japan Inc. about the CE market, and Toshiba was the only big hardware partner MS had.
You have seen how Stringer have been talking as nice as possible about the format "stalemate", when he knew he was winning.
And SONY sold the PS3 IC factory to Toshiba.
> > > "MS was fighting with Japan Inc. about the CE market, and Toshiba was the only big hardware partner MS had. - You have seen how Stringer have been talking as nice as possible about the format "stalemate", when he knew he was winning. - And SONY sold the PS3 IC factory to Toshiba." < < <
What has that to do with signed contracts and public commitments? You seem to have come to this forgone conclusion that Paramount and Universal will drop HD-DVD without having any evidence to support it. This is just my observation; please correct me if I'm wrong.
AuPh
Good night, it is 2 am here. Read something about Japan Inc.
MS's main interest in HD DVD is to prolong the "war" long enough for both formats to piddle about in a permanent stalemate. That still could happen if enough people like you are out there.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
The sales of standalone Blu Ray players before Christmas in USA was extremely high. At prices around USD 270 they outsold all other DVD players.
That was what Warner had required a long time ago.
In addition more than 80% of PS3 owners have played and want to buy Blu Ray Movies.
> > > In addition more than 80% of PS3 owners have played and want to buy Blu Ray Movies. < < <
Gotta link for that, besides a Sony online poll?
last I heard, it was closer to 20%.
Jack
.
Despite packing discs with the PS3 in the past, only 40% knew it was a BD player. Why is this any different?
jack
There is a link to be found by doing google.
It is 2 am here, so I am going to bed now. I want to see Top Gear Extra in the morning from BBC.
.
why do you think that people will not play their Spiderman movie?
"why do you think that people will not play their Spiderman movie?"
There's a difference between playing a free disc and buying your own. :0)
Besides, why would someone who has just bought a PS3 buy movies at a premium price which last a couple of hours tops when they could spend the money on games which provide hours and hours of gameplay where one minute is always different from the next?
Better and better games are being designed for all games platforms but films remain pretty much the same quality and the same duration, so the PS3 will become less and less video players to their owners and more a games consol.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
They match well the percentage of PS3 connected to a HDTV.
Why should gamers not use their PS3 and their HDTV to play Blu Ray movies? Games are often based on popular movies.
See link
- http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/ps3-celebrates-its-first-birthday-56-million-sold/18572/?ncid=AOLGAM000500000000016 (Open in New Window)
"PS3 Blu-ray currently outsells Xbox 360 HD-DVD 9 to 1."
What does that mean?
Is it comparing sales of PS3 to sales of Xbox plus HD-DVD drive?
If so it's meaningless as PS3 purchasers get their BluRay drive for free!
"A recent Blu-ray Disc adoption survey shows that 87% of PS3 users watch Blu-ray movies, 80% of PS3 users have purchased Blu-ray movies and 82% intend to purchase or rent Blu-ray movies."
If PS3 buyers get free BluRay discs of course they'll watch them, and who exactly took part in the survey?
I'd imagine that only those who were interested in BluRay would bother filling in any survey about BluRay, and the statement that BluRay was outselling by just two to one when PS3s are outselling Xbox 360s by nine to one could suggest Xbox owners are buying more high-rez titles than PS3 owners.
There's lies, damn lies and statistics, and anything to do with Sony is on an even lower level. :0)
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
It was an online survey done by Sony. It was neither objective nor scientific. That's why i said in my post,BESIDES THE ONLINE POLL DONE BY SONY. Show me those numbers from an independent third party, and I'll believe it. Also,just because they included a BD, doesn't mean people know what Bd is. They included that dumb racing movie billy bob whatever, and people still didn't know what BD was. Even with that freebie, only 40% of the owners even knew the PS3 was a BD player. If they play a freebie not knowing what it is, does that help them? Does it even count?
Jack
Don't know about you but I trust Sony implicitly!
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
There will always be a vast number of film collectors who, like book collectors, find owning something tangible is preferable to having temporary access. Collectors appreciate the unlimited variety of rare and obscure film, much of which will never be available through internet providers or with the extras we see on DVDs today and for many the whole idea of downloading popular films as an alternative is anathema.
AuPh
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
This kind of crap is why I stopped going to bluray.com.
Its not like all the HD DVD players are going to self destruct, unlike my *cough* first bd player*cough*. People will be enjoying their HD DVDs for years.
Jack
You don't find it disingenuous that he describes himself as a supporter of both formats when he clearly only supports one exclusively? At least you can say you support both and it is actually borne out by your purchases. Auph says one thing and does another.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Not for the format. There are many people who really do not care for the BD exclusive titles.
Jack
I've followed his posts on the film forum where he gushed about several titles that happen to be BD exclusive. If he was "all about the titles" he wouldn't be HD DVD exclusive. He'd either be waiting it out like most normal people or adopting both, like most abnormal people. Anyway, whatever he is, he's a boring drone with his constand insults and talk of cheerleader this, pom pom that, fanboy fanboy fanboy yada yada. I've noticed that type of childish crap doesn't seem to bother you at all, but you're very quick to get on my case when the conversation descends below the civil level. you ain't particularly unbiased yourself.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Call it "support" or whatever euphemism you like, but you've effectively established yourself as this forum's leading fan-boy and pompom carrying cheerleader for SONY and Blu-ray. You might as well admit it, take your bows or do a split if you can find sufficient flexibility for such a maneuver.The bottom line is that you, more than anyone else, worship the god of Blu-ray at the alter of SONY in preference to approaching this issue logically, as an aficionado of movies. Capacity issues notwithstanding, a film collector would be interested in obtaining the best copy of favorite films as available, regardless of the format; that's why I endorsed a dual format player solution.
Feel free to continue thumping your chest and doing cartwheels over Warner's announcement if you like. However, I suspect (with no small degree of apprehension), that if indeed the field is narrowed it will not be the magic bullet for consumers that you seem to hold with such a high degree of confidence. One thing I can say without equivocation is that I'm sure this issue will be revisited many times in the weeks and months to come.
Regards,
AuPh
But I haven't noticed any ill effects of keeping my DVDs and avoiding HD DVD releases of some titles I really like, such as Big Lebowski. You easily could have survived doing the same if you wanted to be a savvy consumer. You didn't. And you are a fanboy. For HD DVD. You still are, but don't worry, we won't let you drown as you cling obsessively to the last remnants of the sinking ship.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
...don't look now, but that fashionable tin-foil hat you're wearing is falling down around your ears. ;^D
The fact that you consider yourself a savvy consumer is a riot; you should be working for Letterman (ooops, too late; he recently settled with his comedy writers). ;0)
> > > "But I haven't noticed any ill effects of keeping my DVDs and avoiding HD DVD releases of some titles I really like, such as Big Lebowski." < < <
LOL! It's a hobby (nothing more, nothing less), my pompom-pas 'friend', not a life support system; it's supposed to be fun, get a grip.
> > > "You didn't. And you are a fanboy. For HD DVD. You still are, but don't worry, we won't let you drown as you cling obsessively to the last remnants of the sinking ship." < < <
My support has consistently been for a dual format solution; I still favor it for several really good reasons which are apparently above your 'pay grade' (intellectually speaking). The fact that this information fails to sink in each time it's downloaded to you suggests that there must be a glitch in your memory capacity (maybe you should ship your brain to SONY for a reboot while it's still under warranty! -grin).
AuPh
Yeah, it's fun to watch movies regardless of definition. So if fun is your middle name, there's no reason to adopt either HD format. We're into the pursuit of higher quality audio and video and that's why we're on the bleeding edge.
You know, auph, we go over these same discussions constantly. You're just not honest. You're not a savvy consumer. You remind me of a ditzy girl.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
> > > "You remind me of a ditzy girl." < < <
And you remind me of George S-F-B Bush, and if you ever figure out what those letters represent you'll know that I don't mean that in a good way.
If you put those frilly blue pompoms down for five minutes and actually thought about how silly and transparent it is for you to act as an unpaid shill for SONY corp. (who apparently cares a great deal more about hyping non-crucial capacity issues than about the actual movies being released) then you might be humbled enough to take a more reasoned position on the pros & cons of both formats! But trust me, no one is holding their virtual breath waiting for that day. ;0)
AuPh
such cost being justified only by the release of a sufficient number of interesting titles available on Blu-ray and not on HD DVD. For a Sci-Fi fan, HD DVD offers "Serenity", Star Trek TOS, and other catalog gems; In contrast, Blu-ray can offer only "Stargate" , "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", "AVP" (only titles which comes to mind at the moment) and "Sunshine" is coming out Tuesday.... plus a bunch of Comic book drek ("Underworld", "Spiderman", "Fantastic Four", "X-Men" er.... um.... come to think of it... seems there might be quite a few good reasons to invest in a Blu-ray player for the discerning movie watcher....
Those profile 1.0 players (or what's left of them) should be real cheap in the next few months as the 1.1 players start to appear to replace them.... After all, what "discerning movie watcher" would give a hoot about IME/PIP ?
.
... making a comparison, or what? ;^>
Cheers,
AuPh
The pressure on Universal and Paramount will intensify to also switch and end the format war. I wonder how they will spin this at the CES Toshiba HD DVD press conference ?
they need time
There's a rumor floating around that Warner was about to go HD DVD exclusive provided Fox would defect (either going neutral or HD DVD-exclusive). When Fox backed up, Warner instead decided to jump to Blu-ray in an attempt to end the format war. Toshiba might have gotten backstabbed at the last minute on this one.
I'm very curious how close Fox came to defecting or how seriously they took the "offer"; especially since they are big fans of BD+ and region coding which is not available on HD DVD.
I was hoping this would happen; HD DVD is in serious trouble now (assuming Reuters is a credible source).News reported by Reuters.
"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Exclusive in June
jack
Now that Warners is officially kicking sand in the face of HD-DVD support it remains to be seen whether either format will be able to survive. There are two factors to consider: 1) A lot of folks purchased HD-DVD players during the holidays, and 2) with Paramount and Universal locked into an exclusivity commitment for the next year plus I'm not sure how Warner's decision will eliminate the format confusion. In the interim both formats could collapse from public apathy.
Regardless of whether Warner succumbed to some under the table deal with SONY or they were just concerned about dual inventory releases confusing/alienating the public, their move to Blue support while emphasizing continued support to standard DVD doesn't give any indication of absolute commitment to high definition. If their Blu-ray sales don't show a marked improvement throughout the year then it wouldn't surprise me if Warners support for high definition on any disc format falters.
Personally, I think that this was a poor business decision for Warners that will alienate some of their studio's movie fans, but who knows. I'm still looking for a reasonably priced dual format or Blu-ray player (not a game-boy or whatever) that has all the A/V bugs worked out. We'll see.
At least Obama came out a winner in Iowa. :o)
Cheers,
AuPh
That noted Blu-ray shill, Bill Hunt offers an alternative viewpoint.
"...
Let's call a spade a spade: What Warner has done today is to effectively pull the plug on this format war. Think about it. Their decision to go Blu-ray exclusive is the only change they could have made that makes any kind of business sense. It's become clear now to nearly everyone in this industry that the continuation of this format war - while it's certainly helped to drive hardware prices lower - has now become the sole major roadblock to high-def discs moving past the early adopter market and into more widespread consumer acceptance.
Warner could have done one of three things: Go Blu-ray exclusive, go HD-DVD exclusive, or stay neutral. It's apparent from their statement this morning that Warner knows as well as we do that this format war is confusing consumers and hurting the chances for high-def packaged media in the long run. While early adopters online have been happily back-biting each other these past two years, most folks elsewhere on planet Earth have just issued a collective yawn. Meanwhile, those non-early adopter consumers who are actually interested in high-def discs have sat on the sidelines waiting for the axe to fall on one of these formats. So for Warner, staying neutral just wasn't an option anymore. The question then becomes, if you're going to make a change in strategy, you want to make one that's going to impart genuine forward momentum on the situation. Warner going HD-DVD exclusive would have effectively created a 50/50 split in Hollywood studio support for these formats, resulting in an even bigger stalemate than already exists, and probably closing the door completely on either of these formats ever gaining widespread acceptance. On the other hand, Warner going Blu-ray only makes that studio split 70/30. It effectively gives Blu-ray exclusive access to 70% of Hollywood studio content. And that's not only a game changer, it's a game ender.
..."
Bills published some opinions which have been wrong and impacted his credibility, but this seems spot-on.
The dropping of prices below $100 and free movie deals was the real incentive for Joe Public to get on board the high resolution express. Collective yawn or not, folks woke up and took notice of those jaw dropping HD-DVD player sales on Black Friday. These folks just got left high and dry by Warner's belated announcement.
Furthermore, all of those who just got stiffed by Warner's decision after buying an HD-DVD player over the holidays as well as those still sitting on the sidelines aren't going to be so easily talked into ponying up hundreds of dollars more for a Blu-ray only player anytime in the near future.
In regard to the PS3 game-boy purchasers, I still suspect that the majority of those folks aren't serious movie buffs/collectors. If they're into games, that's probably the primary function for which those units will be used.
I mean no disrespect to the article or it's author, but I see this from a slightly different perspective. Of course, I could be mistaken and everyone's mileage varies.
Cheers,
AuPh
And the $98 firesales probably reinforced the principle: inexpensive = sales. Toshiba's advantage was they were quicker to bring economies of scales to their HD DVD players quicker than any of the BDA manufacturers. This was a temporary advantage, perhaps augmented by loss/low profit pricing strategies in an attempt to steal the market. There was a surge in Sony Blu-ray SA player sales when they dropped to $300. At the moment, there is actually price parity between the lowest priced Sonys and the Toshibas in the B&Ms I've visited recently.CES 2008 will be interesting to see what new profile 1.1/2.0 Blu-ray players will be released. Will we see the "cheap" Funai players ? I will admit I suspect the BDA new player MSRPs are being "massaged" (i.e. increased) after the fallout from the Warner decision. CE manufacturer competition and economies of scale will probably lead to sub-$100 Blu-ray players, maybe even by Christmas 2008.
BTW, I almost bought a PS3 to watch movies, not play games. The PQ was stellar. There are quite a few PS3 owners who use it strictly for movie watching. It's arguably still the most capable Blu-ray player out there. I needed the 5.1 analog outputs so I went with a different player.
In other words, I'm suggesting that the vast majority of PS3 game platforms will ONLY be used for the primary function that they were designed.> > > "And the $98 firesales probably reinforced the principle: inexpensive = sales. Toshiba's advantage was they were quicker to bring economies of scales to their HD DVD players quicker than any of the BDA manufacturers. This was a temporary advantage, perhaps augmented by loss/low profit pricing strategies in an attempt to steal the market. There was a surge in Sony Blu-ray SA player sales when they dropped to $300. At the moment, there is actually price parity between the lowest priced Sonys and the Toshibas in the B&Ms I've visited recently." < < <
My point is that folks who bought the new HD players over the holidays probably thought that their purchase was going to be supported in the near term (at least for a couple of years down the line) by both manufacturers and product providers. Warner's rationale and belated announcement to "go Blue" after the holiday 'fire' sales may backfire for Blu-ray, and only serve to reinforce the publics distrust.
AuPh
About the same percentage have a HDTV for their PS3. The rest plan to get HDTV.
Why buy a HD game console for a normal TV?
see link
- http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/ps3-celebrates-its-first-birthday-56-million-sold/18572/?ncid=AOLGAM000500000000016 (Open in New Window)
I would've been surprised at 50%, but 80% seems a trifle suspicious.
Cheers,
AuPh
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
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